Easy KK preflop question

CO is Laggro but not a spewtard, very positionally aware and runs 27/23ish
BU is straight forward TAG 16/12/4 over about 100 hands.

PokerStars 6max 100NL
CO has 120BB
BU has 110BB
I cover both in BB
PREFLOP:
Folded to CO who raises $3, BU 3bets to $11, SB folds, BB ??

What is the best way to maximize value here? Standard 4bet looks awfully strong, push looks strong but could be AK, so is a min 4bet here spewy? Calling seems suicidal vs. a Laggro CO who is going to play a wide range with those preflop odds.
I'm afraid I just need to standard 4bet and watch everyone fold. What do you do?

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

Min 4-bet would be asking for tons of trouble. Shoving isn't terrible, but just re-resteal ;p

you only have one option; raise. Anywhere from a small raise to a push is good

Originally Posted by reprisal

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

Min 4-bet would be asking for tons of trouble. Shoving isn't terrible, but just re-resteal ;p

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?

Originally Posted by bode

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?

You didn't. OP did and the poster just sorta blurred it all together.

just shove as long as you arent a total nit people tend to look you up with stuff like JJ here putting you on AK

Between the money depth and your relative position, I really hate a call here. 4-town.

Yah shove all day, that way it looks much more like AK. But i am gonna commit anyday preflop here.

Besides if you just call an A is gonna flop like 85% of the time...

I would have a standard play with your premium hand range in this spot. For me its always to 4bet. You shouldn't be playing AA, QQ or AK any different than KK here.

Originally Posted by bode

where exactly did i say to min-4bet?

Ya, only OP mentioned min 4-bet, was just including your good advice as one of the many reasons why the min-bet would be terrible.

Meeloche, that is exactly what I am trying to decide on.
I usually std 4bet here(like $32), but I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.
I can't cold call this, IMO, unless the 3bettor makes it a bigger than std 3bet and the CO is tighter.
Min 4betting wouldn't seem to work b/c it allows AK/AQ to catch on the cheap. Also by min 4betting mean raising to $22, not that it matters.
So that leaves me with shoving & repping AK. I don't know if that works, but that is why I was asking your opinions.
Actually that is what I did was shove to rep AK and it folded the table.

is it me or are people shoving big hands alot more trying to rep AK these days.

4bet it and dont forget to 4bet bluff

Originally Posted by Silly String

I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.

The solution to this problem of not getting enough action in certain spots is to kick up your bluff frequency a bit there.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Silly String

I've been getting a lot of folds lately when I 4bet cold.

The solution to this problem of not getting enough action in certain spots is to kick up your bluff frequency a bit there.

this and how many times does this situation really come up? i know its not a great spot, but it cant come up THAT often.

insta click-it-back


(srs)

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

ugly logic, you should expect a greater return than 14bb when u have KK acting after a raise/reraise.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by bode

4bet and pick up 14bbs at the worst. i'd love it if i averaged 14bb/hand with KK

ugly logic, you should expect a greater return than 14bb when u have KK acting after a raise/reraise.

right, its not the ideal scenario, but with the money in the pot already picking it up pre isnt a huge letdown either.

I shove this. I don't really see myself cold 4-bet bluffing a 16/12 nit ever, so I'm just jamming to rep/balance with when I do it with AK.