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 Originally Posted by jackvance
Originally Posted by aislephive
Basically that's what you said. You said "who said anything about folding if we miss," or maybe I'm just fucking retarded to think that implies that you are going to make a move on the guy?
I said: there's a lot we can do. You said: so you're gonna do THIS (and I didn't even mention a c/r, you made that up?) and it's retarded! I hope you see what I mean..
You said "who said anything about folding if we miss, we can lead or call a c-bet." So that implies that A) You're going to fire with air on the flop, or B) You're going to float OOP and try to take the pot down on a later street.
I'm assuming that it's a position raise just because it IS most of the time.
Well, I guess this is the point where we differ in opinions. I prefer to wait a few cycles and see if this guy would do such things.
It's a general read, most button raisers have light standards. That doesn't mean they never get a real hand and that because I assume they have a weak hand that I can't change my read on later streets.
Is there that much of a difference between AK and KQ?
lol..
Well, you are dominated by more hands and what is worse, you aren't doing any dominating yourself most likely. Btw.. how are you crushing his range? I'd very so much more prefer AJ over KQ here, b/c then I atleast dominate the vast range of Axs hands people could button raise with.
AJ is if anything slightly better than KQ, but hardly. They are both dominated by pretty much the same hands and both dominate a fair range themselves. KQ may not mathematically crushing the button's range because mathematically all we have is K high which is much weaker (mathematically) than A high. But I would rather be dealt KQo every hand than A2o even though A2 is a solid favorite because KQ flops so much better than A rag.
You are still getting too caught up in hand values because the general conception is that KQ is a trap hand, that's not the point. KQ is a fine reraising hand because it does flop well, even if you on the rare occasion are dominated and manage to hit the flop but still be outkicked. Even if the button has AK and you reraise him and he calls, the flop is going to miss him most of the time and a c-bet will take it down. But we can still play top pair strongly after the flop KQ, you just have to be careful.
I raise like 20% of my hands, and looser on the button ofcourse, and a rough estimation is that the only hands you dominate in my range are KJ, KTs, QJs.. you're the worse end of a coinflip vs most of the others. AK would have had me totally crushed however.
A coinflip is assuming we see all five cards and that the cards just play themselves. I already touched upon it in the last paragraph, but even if we know the button raiser has AK and that we are "dominated, he has 5 outs that he needs to hit on the flop to continue with the hand, the fact that WE have the lead in the hand is very important, much more so than our actual hand, which is a solid hand nonetheless. And a lot of the time he calls with a pocket pair and flopping top pair will get the job done a lot.
And if you flop top pair in a reraised pot and get called you take your foot off the accelerator, and you can be pretty sure you're beat. But that's a small percentage of the time.
The pot is already out of control. It's a lot easier to take your foot off the accelerator if you hadn't inflated the pot preflop..[/quote]
I have no problems fattening up a pot that I'm going to take down a large majority of the time. If you're the type of player who plays top pair like the nuts then maybe you shouldn't be reraising KQ because you might get too attached when you hit when your opponent is telling you that you're beat.
But yeah, it doesn't get to showing of hands too often in such spots, so in that way your hand is irrelevant.
But I personally need to get more info before I straight out assume my reraise will scare him.
A reraise from the blinds is usually a pretty scary thing to most decent players.
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Easy preflop stuff
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