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 Originally Posted by mcatdog
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Originally Posted by mcatdog
I'm even going to assume that you won the hand and stacked him
Well of course I did, why would I post something where I wasn't bragging and actually try to learn something? /sarcasm
I don't think you're bragging, but I do think you're being results-oriented, and you're risking learning the wrong lessons from this thread. First of all I'll ask you the same question I asked aislephive, would you also play for stacks here with AK unimproved, because if his range is monsters + drawing hands then you have better equity with AK than with 86.
Also, let's say you know for sure he has a flush draw and two overcards. How many safe turn cards are there really? How comfortable will you be, shoving your stack in on the turn, if it's an offsuit jack or queen, and knowing that he might have just hit his overcard and you could be drawing to four outs. The only turn cards which really look safe are an offsuit 2 through 9, which is less than half the cards left in the deck, and as we saw a 9 actually wasn't a safe card.
And of course, you don't know he's on a draw. Unless he sucks pretty bad, some of the time he also has 33 or 77 or 87 here and you're practically drawing dead on the flop. I just think that playing for stacks here is not +EV even against a super LAG like this guy.
Not nessicarilly, our hand still has better equity than AK unimproved. Part of villain's range includes hands like A3s, 44-66, and also hands like 56/67. I'd much rather have 86 than AK here. 86 can also improve to trips or two pair as well as the several backdoor straight draws. As I said before, this hand is very read dependant. I don't think I'm playing for stacks here against an unknown, but with a read that this person is a lot more likely to play a draw like this rather than a made hand I'm calling the flop and raising the turn. If he turns a higher pair he probably will slow down some realizing he doesn't need to bluff to win, so his turn bet will often times tell us where he stands. And if you just call the turn you have to call any non spade on the river, with the theory that he would never shove when makes a pair on the river fearing no worse hands are calling and no better hands are folding. This is all of course under the assumption you are facing a solid player, which often times is not the case. There are so many variables in this hand, but let me just say this. River bets are almost always big hands or total bluffs because most people aren't experienced enough to value bet too thinly.
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