I hate the phrase "call and re-evaluate"

A lot of times when someone posts a hand where they have a good one pair hand and they're facing a scary bet or raise, people tell them to "call and re-evaluate on the turn." I think this sucks. No one ever explains what they mean by it. Does it mean something stupid like "Call and unless you hit a miracle card, fold to the big turn bet which is almost always going to come?" Or does it mean fold if he bets this amount, call if he bets this other amount, raise all-in if he bets yet a different amount? Why are we always telling people to get involved in big pots on the flop without any plan for what to do on the turn?

Thoughts? Am I off base here or does anyone else not like these posts either. I think they'd be fine if they led to a discussion of what factors are going to be involved in our decision on the turn but that discussion never happens.

if you're OOP it's not great.

If you're in position you can often gain a lot of information based on the OOP villain's reaction to the turn card.

Sometimes when you're coolered a scare card will get you to showdown cheaply or allow you to bluff a thinking villain.

Sometimes when a board goes from dry to super-dry it becomes easier to narrow villain's range to bluffs and hands that are crushing us.

yeah in a lot of situations it is the wrong advice. sometimes it just needs to be phrased differently... like call but not to "re-evaluate" the turn.

calling the flop raise implies evaluating on the turn. i think people don't elaborate more because it just "depends" too much. what card fell? how scary is it? did your opponent bet or check? if they bet, how much? etc etc.

Problem with calling and evaluting the turn is we are getting ourselves committed way too often.

This kinda reminds me when i said that "wait for a better spot was retarded"

I think the move itself can be very retarded, i think people should stop calling and reevaluating so much when its so obvious what bet is coming.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

This kinda reminds me when i said that "wait for a better spot was retarded"

I think the move itself can be very retarded, i think people should stop calling and reevaluating so much when its so obvious what bet is coming.

you are OOP with KdJd on KcJc8d

You check-raise my c-bet.

I call. At this point you put me on a range of XcYc, AK, Q10, 910...

I think if we "call and reevaluate on the turn" we'll be taking a significantly +ev deal.

edit : part of our +evness will be bluffing scare cards with AK, KQ or a straight draw when the flushdraw hits.

I think the main problem with saying "call and re-evaluate" is that it's too little information. Someone who makes that statement should also have an explanation to go along with it.

You shouldn't really be calling to re-evaluate. You should be calling with a plan as to how you are going to play the turn/river. These plans should be IF..., Then... You should not be calling without thinking what may lie ahead.

i like the phrase, ill try to write a paragraph about it later

That would be more than 46 words, idk if your capable.

If you have been observing ur opponent (specially if they r 12 tabling and arent v. tricky) then you should know their approximate lines with different hands/semibluffs well enough to make a +ev decision on the turn. If you have no plan about HOW to re-evaluate, a fold is probably good.

sauce said it well

u get more information on by seeing what they do on turn (their action, the bet sizing if there is one, and the speed of which they do it).

i think in general turn bets have much more information in them than flop bets, because flop bets are usually standard, where turn bets have alot more of a range which contains more information than a standard cont bet.
its used alot in pots where someone cont bets close to pot in a big pot and raising could be detremental against a good player leading out a set, folding would just be terrible, so unless you have specific reads calling and trying to gain even a little more information out of his turn bet to try and make the right play is the best play.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Problem with calling and evaluting the turn is we are getting ourselves committed way too often.

thats because we dont think on the flop that if opp does xxxx then we are folding REGARDLESS.

if someone has said reevaluate, we should be thinking about doing something on the turn that allows us to stack off, or avoid it (despite any pot odds) in a pot where on the flop we are unsure because mostly of texture.