Implied odds, or fishy play? + Funny AA hand..

Were my implied odds good enough on this hand, or was this a fishy call?

I knew he had the ace, so I figured catching would bust him. What are your thoughts?

***** Hand History for Game 2347846233 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, July 11, 19:14:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 36982 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 5: BalancedOdds ( $176.35 )
Seat 6: Bad_Company_ ( $25.80 )
Seat 1: UrBanSToner ( $25 )
Seat 3: Gwangi11 ( $26 )
Gwangi11 posts small blind [$0.10].
Bad_Company_ posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bad_Company_ [ 4s 3s ]
UrBanSToner folds.
Gwangi11 raises [$0.40].
>You have options at Table 55111 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Bad_Company_ calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Ah, 5d ]
>You have options at Table 54781 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Gwangi11 bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 54781 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
>You have options at Table 55111 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Bad_Company_ calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
>You have options at Table 55111 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Gwangi11 bets [$2].
>You have options at Table 54781 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Bad_Company_ calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 55111 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Gwangi11 bets [$2].
Bad_Company_ raises [$10].
Gwangi11 calls [$8].
>You have options at Table 54781 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Bad_Company_ shows [ 4s, 3s ] a straight, ace to five.
Gwangi11 doesn't show [ Ad, 9c ] a pair of aces.
Bad_Company_ wins $26 from the main pot with a straight, ace to five.
>You have options at Table 55111 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.

---------------------

I don't know why, but this was one of the funniest things I had ever seen..


***** Hand History for Game 2347895506 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, July 11, 19:23:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 36982 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: UrBanSToner ( $23.90 )
Seat 3: Gwangi11 ( $14.15 )
Seat 4: GlenlivetRxs ( $14.11 )
Seat 5: BalancedOdds ( $176.35 )
Seat 6: Bad_Company_ ( $33.90 )
Seat 2: Deke10000 ( $5 )
GlenlivetRxs posts small blind [$0.10].
Bad_Company_ posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bad_Company_ [ As Ah ]
UrBanSToner folds.
Gwangi11 folds.
GlenlivetRxs raises [$2.90].
Bad_Company_ calls [$2.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, 8h, 7c ]
GlenlivetRxs is all-In [$11.11]
Bad_Company_ calls [$11.11].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
>You have options at Table 37179 (6 max) Table!.
GlenlivetRxs shows [ Kh, Ad ] a pair of eights.
Bad_Company_ shows [ As, Ah ] two pairs, aces and eights.
Bad_Company_ wins $26.82 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and eights.

GlenlivetRxs leave Table

Overbetting the pot when I know i'm going to get a call by his 8..

***** Hand History for Game 2350012181 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, July 12, 01:08:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 37058 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: localboy93 ( $27.69 )
Seat 2: FeaRMerc ( $52.28 )
Seat 5: Bad_Company_ ( $18.58 )
Seat 6: supbro15tckl ( $38.40 )
localboy93 posts small blind [$0.10].
FeaRMerc posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bad_Company_ [ 4s 4h ]
Bad_Company_ calls [$0.25].
supbro15tckl folds.
localboy93 folds.
FeaRMerc checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 4d, Js ]
FeaRMerc bets [$0.25].
Bad_Company_ calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
FeaRMerc bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 56417 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Bad_Company_ calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
FeaRMerc bets [$2].
>You have options at Table 36581 (6 max) Table!.
Bad_Company_ raises [$15].
FeaRMerc calls [$13].
Bad_Company_ shows [ 4s, 4h ] a full house, Fours full of eights.
FeaRMerc doesn't show [ 8s, Qd ] three of a kind, eights.
Bad_Company_ wins $31.45 from the main pot with a full house, Fours full of eights.

Hand #1

At first I though you didn't have the implied odds but your opponent was terrible enough that it worked out. It's only profitable if you call on the flop and fold to a turn bet. Calling any reasonable sized turn bet with a gutshot is giving money away.
Here's the math for your scenario ...

1) you call on flop and fold to turn bet
The chance of you spiking your 2 on the turn is 8%. You'll win the money in the pot plus whatever bets he'll call on the turn/river (in this case it was about $12). So, 8% of the time you'll win $1 + $12. 92% of the time you'll lose your $1.

8%($13) - 92%($1) = 1.04 - .92 = .12 (12 cents per hand)

So it looks like you're making about .5BB/hand with this play.

For completeness I'll show the math that gives you the amount of money that you must get him to call on the turn/river.

.08($1 + x) - .92($1) = 0
x = $10.50

So, when he bets $2 on the turn you should probably raise to about $5 and then bet about $6 on the river (he'll likely check it to you).

$10.50 is a lot of money given the fact that the pot is only $1 on the flop ... you were very lucky to have come out ahead here. Fold next time.

mj

before i even get to asking the question what are the odds, i first ask: is this opponent going to pay me off if i catch? do i even want to consider this play? why?

certainly odds are part of this equation, no doubt. but if you can answer those types of questions (he just paid off a hand the hand before and might be on tilt, he has been complaining of being bullied, is a demonstrably poor player, he'll never pay off my whole stack, etc.) all of a sudden the odds get a lot more relevant. First ask why you should even bother calculating them in the first place.