JJ overpair in 3b pot faces PFR c/r?

I only have like 46 hands on the guy, but he's been raising and 3bing very actively (over this small sample he has like 15% but that's not indicative of anything)

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($90.15)
MP ($147.20)
CO ($130.30)
Hero (Button) ($279.50)
SB ($100)
BB ($125.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
3 folds, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $9

Flop: ($25) 5, 8, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $18, SB raises to $88 (All-In), Hero ?


It just seems like such a value line from say QQ+
but then I'm like what if he does this with a flush draw

calling all day vs active unknown

also a lot of players will do this with a draw a lot more than a made

What's teh point of the call pre? And then again what is your plan when betting this flop? Golden rule applies, "if you don't know what your going to do if raised, you can't bet"

Yeah why not 4bet/getting it in pre?

As played I'd probably bet half pot or less on the flop.

Fwiw I think this is diamond overcards a lot, and I remember seeing sets a few times from overactive players. Don't think you can really fold with almost 1/3 your stack in now.

FWIW I am not saying it's a wrong call pre, but I don't see calling and having a hard decision here. I would probably check behind and get it in on most non diamonds. With reads I am probably happy to call this shove to.

Board: 5d 8c 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.824% 40.71% 01.11% 103992 2835.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 58.176% 57.07% 01.11% 145758 2835.00 { 88+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, QdJd, QdTd, JdTd }


If he's been active and can probably throw some spazzouts in there too the call becomes even easier. Take out the pairs we beat and our equity isn't good enough without random spazzouts.

His range of you is a lot wider than JJ. He has hero on AJ, KQs and tons of PP's and SC's. You need to count his FE that he thinks he has here in his shove range. What hands does he expect you to call a 3bet with that can call this flop shove?

Originally Posted by jyms

What's teh point of the call pre? And then again what is your plan when betting this flop? Golden rule applies, "if you don't know what your going to do if raised, you can't bet"

the point is to gain the amount of the cbet if he's bluffing by raising the flop like this one
but c/r as pfr is a ghey line

I knew what to do vs. the raise when I bet, but I'm not sure I was correct in that thinking

I'm not betting into this flop if he's raising/folding

Just 4bet get it in vs a compulsive 3bettor. JJ doesn't play too hot postflop, and an aggro player like this will give you a headache on a lot of boards with overcards that come.

As played, whyyy are you betting almost pot? I'd bet like 12ish on this board if i was gonna bet.

you guys think he's a compulsive 3bettor, but in reality over 46 hands he's probably 3 bet like 5 times or something
and yeah, sure I can get it in pre
but that doesn't solve my flop question

You already seen the stove of the flushdraw and 88+? what's the question?

And FWIW, that is a compulsive 3better. Even 4 times over 45 hands is 9% on a table with no reads. I 4bet AQs, 88+ and bluffs. This gets even wider with reads.

meh he's probably not 3betting 88-TT all that much

yeah but how could any thinking player be making this play for any reason other than to maximize FE.

it just seems like a retarded way to play QQ+, and in the off chance he has a set he's absolutely minimizing his chances of getting an overpair's stack, not to mention he's giving you a chance to get a free card. and his diamond over card range is pretty wide.

of course we have no reason to dismiss the possibility that he's a drooler who's saying "weee i have queens"

Originally Posted by d0zer

Board: 5d 8c 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.824% 40.71% 01.11% 103992 2835.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 58.176% 57.07% 01.11% 145758 2835.00 { 88+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, QdJd, QdTd, JdTd }

range should def. include 33 and 55

Originally Posted by jyms

You already seen the stove of the flushdraw and 88+? what's the question?

And FWIW, that is a compulsive 3better. Even 4 times over 45 hands is 9% on a table with no reads. I 4bet AQs, 88+ and bluffs. This gets even wider with reads.

for all you know he could have just picked up QQ+,AK 5 times in 46 hands and 3b bluffed like 3 times

Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not betting into this flop if he's raising/folding

this post tilts me for some reason. This answer seems all high and mighty, but OP said its a 46 hand sample. There is no fucking way we have this info on villain.

The real question is what to do pf. You cannot call pf then fold this flop, just can't. If calling pf is good then getting it in here is good, if calling pf is bad then getting it in here is bad.

Even though it's 45 hands, the likelyhood that villain gets dealt monsters 5 times is really low, so the likelyhood that he is indeed an active 3bettor increases.

definitely calling but would definitely be 4bet getting it in pre a huge majority of the time. button sb dynamic in todays games is fucking bat shit retarded and people are shoving with really weak hands to 4bets.