KK 3bet pot OOP, turn pairs Q (2/4)

Villain runs 33/17, aggro postflop. Don't remember him having shown down anything, really. I haven't been 3-betting lots, this is the first significant pot we've played together.

My stats are pretty tight, but my image might be a bit crazy after I sqeezed K2s in the blinds vs 3 ppl and had to call a shortie's shove (yeah, I've made a post-it note reminding me to watch stack sizes!). This was a while ago, though, and I've shown down a few reasonable holdings since.

No IQ poker 2.00/4.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

Button ($641.80)
Hero ($514.00)
BB ($400.00)
UTG ($292.00)
UTG+1 ($255.30)
CO ($398.20)

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with K K
3 folds, Button raises to 16.00, Hero raises to 56.00, 1 fold, Button calls 42.00.

Flop (120.00) Q T 5
Hero bets 100.00, Button calls 100.00.

Turn (320.00) Q
HalvSame (356$ left to play for)

Also, bet sizing?

I like repping AK and shoving

Originally Posted by Genitruc

I like repping AK and shoving

no better hand folds and no worse hand calls.

c/f I think

I raise a little more pre-flop b/c stacks are deepish, but I know gabe and others hate that. Really it's fine though.

"no better hand folds and no worse hand calls. "

they dont think you have Q, and if u had AA you wouldnt shove on the Q, so they call with JJ and 99 or whatever

I disagree

i can see JJ or 99 calling a shove but im not sure that i like a shove even if they do possibly call.

Originally Posted by EzDuzIt

i can see JJ or 99 calling a shove but im not sure that i like a shove even if they do possibly call.

what's not to like about it?

you can balance by doing it with draws (including AK)

and also I think lots of thinkers will call a shove with 99 or JJ but not a standard 2nd barrel

c/s flop as played c/s turn

My plan was to shove a blank turn to stack Qx/JJ, but the turn card made me freeze. I'm not really convinced shoving the turn is good now that Qx beat me along with AA/TT, I suspect that he doesn't call often enough with JJ or 99 alone. I do agree that an open shove seems best if I want to put more money in on the turn though. As a side note I think I could benefit from making the flop bet full pot, giving me slightly less than pot for the turn shove and also earning me a little bit extra the times he's planning to call once with a mid pair.

I ended up checking planning to call his shove or shove river myself, but he made a small bet instead (around half pot). At that point I should've either shoved or folded, as he's not betting the river with worse after I call. After checking I think I like a fold since he's probably gonna try to get to showdown with JJ- so his range for betting the turn is probably something like {floats, Qx, boats} with floats not being all that likely.

C/r ai flop is also interesting, though I suspect he's gonna pot control alot with lesser pairs, and it seems there are lots of turn cards that we aren't thrilled about?

Originally Posted by zook

I disagree

if you were villian and had JJ, and hero pushed this turn, what would you do??

im not saying this is the case here but you gotta consider this approach

Originally Posted by HalvSame

C/r ai flop is also interesting, though I suspect he's gonna pot control alot with lesser pairs,

he sounds like he's bad aggro, meaning i doubt he probably ever does this

c/f, I don't think we beat anything.

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

c/f, I don't think we beat anything.

...?

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

c/f, I don't think we beat anything.

Well, I don't know about anything (he could have jj, a 10, 99, some other crap, but I generally agree. I definitely don't like shoving here, when he calls you are WAAAYYYYY behind his calling range imo. And its not like you have any fold equity against better hands either. I would check to him, and see what he does. If you have some sort of betting size tell on him from previous hands it might help you decide then whether to fold/call (without a read on this its probably a fold though if he makes any substantial bet, this is a pretty bad spot for kk).