Quote Originally Posted by HalvSame
Quote Originally Posted by Genitruc
If you're afraid of sticky situations you're gonna get pwned all day playing aggros deepstacked.

Don't wanna be harsh, but are we supposed to wait for top set on a dry board?
Of course not, but looking at the situation what we have is a pair out of position versus a raise on a multiway soaking wet flop. This board is right in set- and two-pair land, plus there are multiple draws available. If we call we're not going to love any turn card, though a king would be nice. If we push he's folding anything that isn't ahead or a coinflip. Pretty much the only thing we're going to get money out of later in the hand are overplayed top pairs and air. With 75BBs behind things change, but I'm not risking 210BBs here.

When I'm deep stacked I want to bet the one in control. That means having position, a great hand on a dangerous board, or a good hand on a dry board. In this hand we have none of the above.
those are all great points

I still have a tough time folding here. AF of 8 is just soooo aggressive, it's unreal.

Something else to consider is that villain might be slowed down as well if the wrong card hits the turn for him (on his 2 pair/set hands) and we can get to showdown cheaply.

I realize that this might be overaggro/spewy thinking on my part, but AF OF 8 FFS. That is someone who is raising postflop like ALL THE TIME... So folding here just makes me wanna puke.

But like I said, your thought process is very good (reasons we wanna get out of this hand).

How about the following situations vs the same villain :

-We raise QQ 2 calls. Board is K-high w 2 low-card spades. We c-bet (prob a mistake) and villain raises. What do we do?

-We raise 99 villain calls (pot is HU). Board is Q-10-6 rainbow. We c-bet villain raises. What do we do?

-We raise AK villain calls. Board is K-J-8 monotone. We don't have any cards of board's suit. We c-bet villain raises. What do we do?

In all of these examples, we have strong hands vs an aggro villain. But calling the flopraise opens us up to playing a big pot OOP with a vulnerable hand.

If we're folding all 3 examples here I think we need to find another seat at the table. The only way we're gonna make money off of villain is hand-over-hand which is worse than playing blackjack.

Strategically, we should obv be checking a lot of flops vs this dood.

OT, but I'm just trying to explain why I think folding this spot (which is one of the stronger flop hands we rate to have) means we're folding way too much.