LAgg vs LAgg

I am getting into lag play. This is highly awkward for me as I generally run 14/7 at full ring. As an experiment I tried to lag it up at this table, and ran about 32/22 for over two hours.

My image is lag. Table is generally talkative and laughing it up. There are two ftr-ers and one ex-ftr-er (villain). Villain is a thinking ultra-lag, running 67/44.

Also note, this is deep effective stack 50nl.

***** Hand History for Game 3904959848 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, April 07, 00:37:25 ET 2006
Table Ace Anxiety (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: pbNjtime ( $117.62 )
Seat 4: Renton555 ( $131.86 )
Seat 3: CaiusB ( $92.67 )
Seat 6: EstropUK ( $146.28 )
Seat 5: spades109 ( $60.25 )
Seat 1: colesy411 ( $0 )
spades109 posts small blind [$0.25].
EstropUK posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ 9h 5d ]
pbNjtime folds.
colesy411 has left the table.
CaiusB folds.
Renton555 raises [$2].
spades109 folds.
EstropUK calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Th, 6d ]
EstropUK checks.
Renton555 bets [$4].
EstropUK calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
EstropUK checks.
Renton555 bets [$7].
EstropUK raises [$21].
Renton555 calls [$14].
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
EstropUK checks.
Renton555 checks.

Should I fourbet this turn w/o the nuts?

And should I value bet this river?

the only thing that beats you here is j-9 which i doubt he has. he doesn't have the flush imo., he wouldn't be raising the 8h on the turn. maybe he has a set?

at worst i think it's a split pot. definitely bet the river.

What do you think Villian is putting you on?

This depends a lot on how you're been playing. I know you've been laggy, but have you been firing 2 and 3 barrells with nothing? And if so, would you fold to a big flop/turn/river raise? If the answer to that is yes, then his call on the flop may be him setting up a delayed bluff (one of my favorite moves when I'm lagging it up) for the turn. When he cr's you on the turn and you flat call (and this is the only time you've performed this line), he'll give you credit for a real hand and put on the brakes. Hence the river check.

Another explanation is the unlikely J9. He makes an implied odds call on the flop given the deep stacks. However, I smell a rat whenever a smart, thinking player is willing to play OOP with me.

And of course, he could have had you before the turn with a set or something powerful (two pair or better looks real good against a lag, but ugh, deep stacks bleeehhhhhhhhh) and is trying to throw you rope. Perhaps the river check is induce another "bluff" from you.

I dunno, just some thoughts. It's all about your history with this guy.

Oh, and to answer your two questions Renton:

1) With stacks like that, I don't think it's that wise (but then again I personally don't know what kind of lag this guy is)

2) Once again the stacks makes me quesy about making a bet which could be seen as red meat when I can just as easily end the hand. I like a check here. I normally don't play big pots like a "wimp", but I've lost plenty of huge ones because I have been addicted to the bet button.

Just my donk two cents.

LAGs don't slowplay 1 card straights.

omg estrop played?

Ya he, boost, and I owned this table for like 2 hours. We each ran around 40ptbb/100 at this table.

I would value bet here, looks like at worst you are splitting, although a flush is possible. It wouldn't be a good idea to 3 bet the turn either, you'll lose every hand you don't want to lose doing this. It's possible that he has 2 pair and might call, however unlikely. 30$ looks right, folding to a raise of course.

Re-raise turn. As played, that's a really easy value bet on the river.

Originally Posted by Fnord

As played, that's a really easy value bet on the river.

I didn't do it because

1. I am up against a thinking player who has seen me flat call a sizable reraise on the turn with a coordinated board. I doubt a set or two pair calls here considering the villain.

2. I am up against a player who plays draws aggressively and could easily have the flush. He as also been playing just about any suited crap in and out of position.

3. I can't stand a reraise.

I wasn't really concerned about J9, but I just don't like fourbetting with a one card str8. The flat call on the turn was really for value. I didn't see him calling a fourbet. My plan was to raise a blank river or bet a blank river for value if he checks. Since the river wasn't blank, I just checked behind.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Fnord

As played, that's a really easy value bet on the river.

I didn't do it because

1. I am up against a thinking player who has seen me flat call a sizable reraise on the turn with a coordinated board. I doubt a set or two pair calls here considering the villain.

2. I am up against a player who plays draws aggressively and could easily have the flush. He as also been playing just about any suited crap in and out of position.

3. I can't stand a reraise.

I wasn't really concerned about J9, but I just don't like fourbetting with a one card str8. The flat call on the turn was really for value. I didn't see him calling a fourbet. My plan was to raise a blank river or bet a blank river for value if he checks. Since the river wasn't blank, I just checked behind.

1 and 2 are both reasons why you should have pushed the turn
3, thats not a reason for not value betting the river.

So what did villian show?

JTo

durr.. come on renton, estrop was easily beat by you here. And I dont get why you are afraid of the river check raise by the 'thinking' player.