Mental approach...

I am having trouble during my current downswing keeping my sanity. I am currently playing $100nl on Stars. During the last 6 days I have logged 17,000 hands and I am down 16 buy ins. Every day its one suck out after another after another. I tilted off 3 of the 16 by not being able to mentally handle it when I am playing well and using my reads then losing top set to a gut shot river. Even when I win a big hand it seems I am rivering someone who is slowplaying their monster. I can handle most of the regulars, its the fish that are killing me they are constantly sucking out or I am oop and getting set mined. Does anyone have any suggestions with their mental approach when they are running bad?

I am constantly telling myself that these guys are losing players, but in my database the winners are all the super loose/fishy/calling station types and all the TAG regulars that I see are losers.

Originally Posted by Jager

I am constantly telling myself that these guys are losing players, but in my database the winners are all the super loose/fishy/calling station types and all the TAG regulars that I see are losers.

Realize when a relativley unknown's call means something, especially if it is a WA/WB situation.

Sometimes the call is saying, "hey there, I got 2 pair, keep betting please", but then when you check they bet 1/5 of the pot giving you a cheap showdown. I do not see many people call big bets on the turn with <TPTK.

Whenever I get even a little mad, or notice I'm acting without thinking, I just sit out at all tables. the biggest swings I have are playing like that. I make a lot worse decisions, because I don't consider my image and make worse reads. It makes a huge difference to me, playing focused and in a relaxed and positive mindset, taking time to make decisions with no anger.

Maybe you're still playing solid even if angry or after a bad beat, but maybe not and you underestimate the small and medium pots you're losing from playing like that. like maybe you continue raising garbage on the button but now ppl are calling a lot more...soon enough 10% of a buy in here, 20% of a buyin their...adds up. so anyways my suggestion is to only play when you're in a solid state of mind.

http://tuffish.ytmnd.com/

Originally Posted by Fnord

http://tuffish.ytmnd.com/

Get's you right there, doesn't it?

We played the same table today.

My brief observation is that you blow worse hands out of the pot and predictably have 2 gears on a given hand. Fold and blast-pre-flop-blast-the-flop.

Drop down to NL25 for a day and play at least 30% of your hands.

jager, i've played a few pots with you, and since i play a million tables and don't have reads on players at all (fnord) take this fwiw.

You seem to be what is called the "predictable tagg." We'll call this playing style TAgg-Lite. Basically this is the archetype of players at low stakes that has preflop stats resembling a "tag" (20/15 ish). You raise preflop, and you bet the flop, and then you don't continue unless you have TPTK or better. You don't really second barrell a lot, and you don't really bluff raise in position (postflop). You don't threebet enough, and you are very easy to threebet light (i threebet you with probably double the range i threebet most players with).

Don't take this as an insult. My flaws are extremely similar to you. I am break even at 100nl on stars for almost 30k hands. Its much easier to see the flaws of others than it is to see the flaws of yourself.

Our biggest weakness is smallball. We know how to play nothing, and we know how to play sets, but we can't play marginal hands (not necessarily can't... we just don't bother trying). Here's the stuff i've been trying out, with limited success (i'll take any success at this point).

Start calling TAgg-Lites' raises in position with reasonable hands like suited connectors, and then start muscling them after the flop. They can't take the heat.

Call their continuation bets with any two on bad boards, especially when you have anything at all (bottom pair or a gutshot draw is fine). They almost always check the turn (see above), and then you bet and they fold-- or and then you check and they make a too-little-too-late-river-bluff and you call.

If you aren't threebetting these players light at least once every 4-5 orbits, then thats just an extra 4 dollars every 5 orbits you could be making. They always fold if you have a good image.

Then there's the players who have just transcended TAgg-Lite status. Now that the games blow, or maybe they always have on stars, theres actually a surprising number of decent players even at low stakes. Against these guys and any player who likes to call the flop light, you need to fire again sometimes. Imagine if the flop is one where you would make a lot of speculative calls, and then bet the turn again accordingly. If they fold 40% of the time, you win.

Also against these guys, you need to mix up the way you play weak hands with the way you play big hands. Use the AA stackadonk line with air on rare occasion. Use the threebarrell donk bluff line oop with AA or a set sometimes. Make blocking bets with huge hands, etc.

i agree with Renton. that is how you should play ME. i must be nitty.

thanks for plugging my leaks, Rent.

Actually guys I do all of these things against all the Tag regulars that I see. I think most of them will tell you I am very tough to play against. Most of my problems come from the so called bad players or the semi loose players, they are so random that I can't usually get good reads. I try to just play ABC Tag poker with them, similar to what is taught in both Renton's guide and Ace's guide. Is this wrong? Is there is something I should be doing differently? I am really trying to get a grasp on consistently winning against the 'bad' type of players. They aren't usually around long, but always seem to take my money and give it to someone else.

I took a look at the 47 hands I played with you Fnord, and had nothing and I mean nothing the entire time, my only playable hand was the AKo that we discussed. Its funny Renton I have 900+ hands with you and we have only been involved HU once. I think I do a nice job of picking up pots with marginal holdings or getting pots where I push out a better hand. It is nice to know that you think of me as a normal Tag type player, this is the image I want to project. Even with 3 incredible downsings this month(12, 16, and 10 buy in), I am still ahead 25 buy ins.

maybe u just need to learn how to valuebet better

Originally Posted by Jager

Its funny Renton I have 900+ hands with you and we have only been involved HU once.

Collusion..

On a more serious note Jager, I'm going to be really mean for whatever its worth, even though i dont normally do this.

Cut the crap. You have been whining about a downswing for so long. Face it. You are not a good 100 nl player. You're going to have to look at your game hard and figure out what exactly the problem is.







(idk if anything i just said is true but maybe its a wake up call)

Table selection?

If there's a good LAGG on my left it fucks with me bad. It only took 2-3 buyins at a couple different tables to figure that out.

Originally Posted by Renton

maybe u just need to learn how to valuebet better

This is something I am working on.

No no no... not whining , I started this thread to see if others maybe had similar problems that they battled through. Looking for a better state of mind, especially when I am losing. I am always looking to get better at all aspects of my game.

Start checking the turn with top pair against players you don't put on much and then making a full pot river bet... and watching them call with total crap.

Originally Posted by Jager

, I started this thread to see if others maybe had similar problems that they battled through.

I ran -4 BB/100 at 100NL over 15k hands that I played bad at, but a lot was variance, i definetely was playing winning poker. So yes horrid downswings happen.