Noobie HU learning curve (warning long)

I've played about 50 HU SnG's in the past week, and that's about 90% of my HU poker experience. I figured I would just post in here what's been happening and see if any of the regs wanna offer some direction and/or advice.

1. Started with $2.20 on FT, like the 2-table HU format. I was breaking even and then went on a 10 match losing bender, so I moved up where they would respect my raises. lol jk. I am rolled for 10/11, just playing lower to learn something.

1a. I ONLY PLAY ONE TABLE AT A TIME. At the moment, I'm just learning, not trying to earn FTP's, rake or any other shizzle. I started with two SnG's at once, and I just got all my reads confused. Now, I open the other match and watch it when I have a moment, which is rarely. But I do try to scan the HH's for big pots that showed down to try to get some kinda read for the money match if I win. If I win early, I watch the end of the other match to get reads. If I win late, I try to scan the showdown pots during the first few hands of money match. I hope I'm getting the adjustment edge on the multitablers that way.

2. Moved up, won 4 of my first 6 $5.40's, then realized after 10 SnG's that the $6.40 was same rake/plus $4 earn for the win. Thinking (somewhat correctly, imo) the competition would be similar, I moved on up. I've won 4 of 11 4-man HU SnG's at $6.40, and 70% of my matches overall. Small sample size and all, but it feels good to win.

3. The main player type I face seems to limp way too much, and there's almost no 3b's pre w/o the nuts. The maniac gives me trouble, especially if I go card dead for any length of time. I'm learning to widen my value range based on villain's looseness, but it's sick variance sometimes. I love the TAGG-wannabe's and the one nit I played. I also like the weak-tighties who are loose passive pre. Free chips.

4. Game theory. I don't know if there's any ICM calculator that deals with HU tourneys. If there is, could someone point me at it? Obv in a 2-table HU tourney, you can't win during the first match, only lose. TAGG is the obvious style (meaning HU TAGG, maybe 40/30 or so). I see a lot of players going all-in way too early with way too little. It's tempting to join them, but smarter to wait until you have a read. TAGG poker with a weak-tight aversion to all-ins will at least keep you in the first match for 20 hands with no worse than a 1:2 chip deficit, and by then you have (or should have!!) enough of a read to outplay them in non-showdown pots.

5. If I'm serious about winning and moving up (and I'm thinking about it), I need to avoid the gambool in me and extend the matches, get the reads and win sick bluffs at just the right time, showing up with the goods when I'm 90% certain I'm way-ahead. That sort of thing. Especially match 1. There's a time to gambool in the 2nd match, especially after you have a read. But not early on.

6. Reading Colin Moshman's HU book. Good stuff. I had the naive notion that my strategy should change based on stack vs. stack ratio, like having a 3 to 1 chip advantage. He argues it's all about effective stack size. The more I play, the more I see how he's right. Sure, the big stack can play a bit more confidently in big pots (relative to stack sizes) since he can "reload," but it's still much better to guess how your opponent will react to each effective stack an see if you can't out-adjust them. Worrying about "finishing him off" or "not letting him catch back up" is nonsense. Play quality poker hands and forget the rest, as CM says.

7. Even without ICM, I've started asking myself this question when facing all-ins or big pot decisions: what odds do I need here to make going all-in worth it? Say I'm 2 to 1 chip leader during the 3rd level blinds of the first match, and I have some value. Well, losing an AI will having me swapping places with this guy, and having to battle back from a deficit with the blinds due to get medium-big soon. So I'm only shoveling the chips if I'm about 80% likely to be ahead, or have massive outs + fold equity. Save the chips, get the reads, outplay the guy.

8. What I need to learn.
- Shove/fold strategy for better endgame.
- 3b/4b and these crappy little min-3b vs. min-pfr's where you're getting 5 to 1 pot odds but facing a very polarized range.
- Patience, grasshopper.
- ICM stuff.
- Whatever the HU regs in here say to - yes, I've read the digest btw

9. I hate SnG's in the normal variation, but for some reason these HU SnG's really appeal to me. I'm learning a type of poker that is interesting and fun, and that's teaching me a ton of new stuff. Also, the HU version of poker is so much more Stove-able and mathy. You can usually classify big pots in terms of your hot/cold Poker Stove equity against a range and know how you did. There's also the obvious fact that you get tons better at reading and inferring based on gameplay rather than turning into some dimwitted HUD-bot gnome playing full nit.

Well, that's about it. If you're still reading, thanks. Sound off with any advice. I'll be posting some HH's and questions soon.

Also, I'm thinking about posting a video of a match or two, if anyone would care to watch and give pointers. I don't much about making video and uploading it tho, so that might be Christmas break before it happens.

There's no ICM in hu tournies, because there's only one prize. You either win or lose...

However, when you're playing a player you have a big edge on, and he puts you in a situation where you are only very marginally plus ev, you should fold. Some programs call this edge%. I would download sng wizard thats what i use.

I thought Moshman's book was pretty mehif you already have any HU experience. Basically the same ideas that you can find in krantz's first pr1nnyraiding series.

Yeah, I figured out the ICM deal, appreciate the hint on edge%.

I'm seeing how Moshman's book might be WAY beginner level, but I hadn't played much HU at all (maybe 5 HU SnG's) prior to reading it, so I learned some things.

Thanks for reading this and helping out.

try www.tagpoker.co.uk. In the panel on the right hand side there are some heads up SNG videos. you might find them useful.

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

try www.tagpoker.co.uk. In the panel on the right hand side there are some heads up SNG videos. you might find them useful.

THANKS!!!

Worrying about "finishing him off" or "not letting him catch back up" is nonsense

Good advice IMO. If your play has made him a dog, let that same play make him a loser.

As far as shove/fold goes: I like looking for a shove spot if my stack is 3:1 dog early or 2:1 dog late

I played like 10 PS 2.20 SNG's yesterday.
General feeling is that HU play there was just afwul. Briefly my experience are the following:

- Way too passive preflop
- Almost no 3betting
- People stack of way too light
- Betsizing (pre and post) made no sense
- It's a shame there's no micro limit HU cash because it usually takes only 1 big or 2 medium sized pots for the game to became shove/fold.

I REALLY enjoyed playing HU and my feeling is there's way more theory in there and edges between players can be huge imo. Compared to the robotic decisions at 6max nowadays it felt great, so I'm definately going to be playing some bigger games.

shove/fold is easy

1. when you're the one shoving if he's not calling your shove with a wide range (I mean really wide like J7o) then you should shove ATC when you get down to 10BB since it's EV+ until he adjusts (unless he's a fish and calls ATC anyway)

2. when you're reshoving it's all about ranges
say he opens for the min to 100 with 100% of his hands with stack sizes at 1500 and calls a shove with top 20% of hands

you can shove any two (minus 72o, 32o)

if he limps half of his hands, and opens 15% you should forget about 3b bluffing all in since he's going to call about every time he raises
you should start thinking about 3b shoving all in when you have less than 10x the pot size in your stack, against normal opponents I start doing it at around 6x

sng wiz is good but you never know when your eatin a jelly roll

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

try tagpoker.co.uk. In the panel on the right hand side there are some heads up SNG videos. you might find them useful.

Hey I've just found this forum, I'm glad you found the videos useful.

I'll be getting much more involved here.

Also to OP, HUSNG's are a massive game of adjusting to your opposition. I'd say that most players are not TAG at the low stakes they tend to call too light or spew off all over the place (as a rule).

But my point is that you shouldn't be developing an overalll game plan, you should be learning to spot who you are up against and employ a certain strategy to best exploit them.

And if a player is TAG as you say, then I don't expec to get whittled down on chips. These guys generally play way too tight for HU so I exploit that by stealing off of them a lot whilst peppering in some pre and post flop plays.

Also these guys fall apart in high blind play by folding way too much.

Good luck

Speak to you all soon.

Broker

Excellent post Robb, any updates on playing these lately?

Are you making any money playing Heads Up games. I could not win enough per hour of playing without moving up to stakes that I am uncomfortable with. So then I would bet wrong because I don't want to lose my bankroll.