OMG WTF 6-MAX RULZ

By looking at my post number, this should provide many with a good laugh: I just discovered 6-max, after being a loyal MTT and full ring guy...AND DAMN IS THIS FUN!!!

Recently, I moved to 6-max to burn bonuses and work on my reads. To-date, I'm pretty much pwning 50NL, and I want to move up in a couple weeks.

However, I wanted to get some thoughts on what to look for upon moving up to 100NL and beyond. I'm still making lots of mistakes...mainly the following:
- getting a bit "greedy" with speculative hands pre-flop
- taking semi-bluffs and bluffs a street too far
- trying to overpower what turn out to be calling stations

Should I look for similar LAG-gression? More creative post-flop play? Better adjustments to my style?

The dilemma here is that I think these same "weaknesses" actually produce more action for me, so I don't want to stop them all-together. The other issue I notice is the rake...it really starts to get you if you are in a lot of pots.

Thoughts?

Get rakeback, post some numbers VPIP/PFR for me. Post hands, k thx.

Welcome the the juiciest game... (can someone move this to the right forum please)

I've been living in 1/2 NL six max for about 4 months now, (been playing 6 max since I started) and it's been providing me with some nice money...

My strategy is simple, trick all the wanna be sharks into giving you their stack. Tread water until you catch a monster and make an agressive player pay you off. (make a weak bet or really overbet your monster, depending on the player you're up against.) If you're in a loose fishy game, tighten up. If you're in a tight smart game, loosen up. Figure out what your opponents are doing, sniff out their bluffs, play your low suited connectors and bust their ass when they don't expect you to be holding a 5 in your hand. Most importantly is getting a good feel for when your hand is good, which can only come with experience.

I wish I could post some of my numbers from Full Tilt this week. I'm on an insane heater and have cashed out $3000 in the past four days mostly from 1/2NL 6 max.

Originally Posted by storm75m

Welcome the the juiciest game... (can someone move this to the right forum please)

Done

Couple comments, just to see if I'm on the right track, and my key learnings...I imagine this is standard stuff at 100/200 and up...

Originally Posted by storm75m

My strategy is simple, trick all the wanna be sharks into giving you their stack. Tread water until you catch a monster and make an agressive player pay you off. .

I get left of sharks and adjust based on their tempo, or take control away from them. However, I need to work on quickly leaving games when I'm in a bad seat, at a bad game, or both...I sometimes daudle and give up chips to a table being run over by an uber-Tag.

Originally Posted by storm75m

(make a weak bet or really overbet your monster, depending on the player you're up against.) If you're in a loose fishy game, tighten up. If you're in a tight smart game, loosen up. .

I still make mistakes with monsters when I bet out and get folds (say, with a set and an A on board), but hey, if they don't have anything, I'm not getting paid anyway, so I'm usually good with it. I sometimes get stuck when I whiff on the flop OOP, bet out and get a call. I often fire again on the turn to define the hand and not let someone draw on me to a big hand that they can't lay down at the river. Gets me in trouble when I bet big on flop and show weakness on the turn--players often take it away from me. Also, the "tricky check" (feign a set or something and check after PF raise) out of position still works wonders on 1-2 weak tighties at 50NL.

Fnord had a recent post with a link on the concept of "pressure points", which I LOVE...so many opportunities to use this in the 6-max game. I'm assuming they are even more important as you move up, both offensively and defensively.

Originally Posted by storm75m

Figure out what your opponents are doing, sniff out their bluffs, play your low suited connectors and bust their ass when they don't expect you to be holding a 5 in your hand. Most importantly is getting a good feel for when your hand is good, which can only come with experience..

I r/r A LOT more that full ring, mainly in position, and seek to bet big in position post flop with strong hands and draws, as well as "air" against most opponents. I attract crying calls (mid pair, weak kick) that catch me bluffing, which is ok, as the next time they stay with my big hands. Last night a tricky, "aware" player did a min-raise bluff and then showed garbage when I folded MP...makes me feel good that they're throwing money around, and I look to use that later. Finally, the donks do catch when I'm betting TPGK, and I can scare typical players into passive calling down premium hands, which I have to watch for (guy shows down overpair KK after calling 2 big bets from me (w/ TT) on a garbage board and then checking the river in position - LOL).

Generally, I find I make many more "mistakes" in short-handed which set up the table for future hands, or other pressure points, so I see a lot more variance. Also, I'm getting much better at knowing when my hand is good against most players, but have some trouble with uber-Tags. I usually end up fighting back at them every so often to prevent them from rolling over me, if I sense they are getting greedy.

I'm curious how many of my posts above get "fixed" by Fnord...

either get a 30odd% rakeback deal (eurobet may be good) or never play unless your working off a bonus (probably equivilant to 40-80% rb at 6max).

rake is a huge sucker at 6max..

and varience is so dam huge.

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

Generally, I find I make many more "mistakes" in short-handed which set up the table for future hands, or other pressure points, so I see a lot more variance.

I think that's pretty standard... I make donk plays all day myself, but they can turn out to be very beneficial later on... (or not...) As long as you keep a clear head and have a game plan, know when to slow it down and know when to pick your spots, you'll be fine. From your comments it sounds like you're doing pretty good. It's kinda hard to say exactly what you should and shouldn't do, because it varies so much based on the table/players you're up against. And also, you're comment about switching tables is dead on. One small thing I can comment on, is being aware of your own table image, and knowing when to leave when you're not comfortable with how other players perceive you. Sometimes a weird run of cards when you first sit down can really affect how others view you, and you constantly have to be aware of your own image at the table. All I can say is you definitely experience the full psychology aspect of poker playing short handed cash games, and you find the true meaning of thinking three or four levels deep.

OMG I just started too and it's so much more fun. People are soo weak its easy to run them over. I'm a little down now but I'm sure that's just due to variance and my inexperience at 6max.

I am getting into it now too. My forte is full ring, but oddly enough, no other sites than PokerStars and PartyPoker have any decent selection of full ring. So, I am now learning 6-max to clear bonuses.

I am really not liking it too much. I am not losing, I just really find the game to be uncomfortable. I guess I just have trouble hanging my balls out there for middle pair.

Originally Posted by Renton

I am really not liking it too much. I am not losing, I just really find the game to be uncomfortable. I guess I just have trouble hanging my balls out there for middle pair.

Save that middle pair stuff for the fishies...

A good tip for people just starting six max is to play the same as you would full ring.... take the same kind of hands to showdown... Just find a nice loose game. You can add some more hands to your starting hand selection, Axs, a few more suited connectors, but the game doesn't change as much as you think... you just find more players playing incorrectly, and that's why you see some donk calling you down with middle pair to take the pot when they hit their two pair on the river.

6max is the best, with solid play, you're pretty much going to win money most of the time

Just to revisit this thread...the swings have drove me crazy at times, but it's still tons of fun and very profitable.

I agree with the table image comment, as even the worst fish will notice when you are steamrolling a table. Of course you can use this to your advantage.

I do think however, that stubbornness or bad headspace will kill you quickly in this game as it's easy to out think yourself while your trying to pwn unsophisticated players. Sometimes if I sit down when I'm out of sync (tired, edgy, impatient, too confident, unwilling to give credit), I can lose 3-4 buyins very quickly. Then its the "two-hand push" to get up from the PC for a while...

wow i pretty much agree with all of this. what makes 6max so different then 10 man tables? for some reason i used to play so tight at 6max, well somewhat tight. i didn't reraise often. played top hands, and i would win huge pots occasionally, and lose huge ones too. then i started playing looser, and i'm involved in a lot more small pots. that right there always keeps my chip stack on the move, usually positive. i also help it thinks me stay in the game. if you're always involved, you're always thinking. when i played tight, i would make myself think i needed t o win this hand because i havn't been getting good cards lately. now i don't concentrate as much, but i'm smarter. it's hard to explain i guess, but i am noticing a huge difference in my play.

"defending the blind" is one of the hardest things to do on 6 max.

You don't have to this in full ring, since the blinds comes around twice as slow compared to 6max.

In 6 max this can be a pain if you get an aggressive, thinking button player.
Right off the bat, he can be making a profit of you, and there's really not much you can do until you start check raising, reraising, etc.

I've met a few, and I just leave the table. I know "somewhat" what to do.. but I try to stay out of harm's way

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

wow i pretty much agree with all of this. what makes 6max so different then 10 man tables? for some reason i used to play so tight at 6max, well somewhat tight. i didn't reraise often. played top hands, and i would win huge pots occasionally, and lose huge ones too. then i started playing looser, and i'm involved in a lot more small pots. that right there always keeps my chip stack on the move, usually positive. i also help it thinks me stay in the game. if you're always involved, you're always thinking. when i played tight, i would make myself think i needed t o win this hand because i havn't been getting good cards lately. now i don't concentrate as much, but i'm smarter. it's hard to explain i guess, but i am noticing a huge difference in my play.

Honestly, I used to be a bit intimidated by 6-max...it was just too crazy and I felt exposed at the table. But I started loosening up and trusting my reads, I kinda hit a stride. Once I started to lag a little more and remain aggressive, people started paying me off with their Ace high because they just didn't believe my middle pair.

As long as you don't go overboard, you can really sharpen your skills in table reads and image/self-awareness in 6-max. When you totally pwn someone it's damn gratifying...

i had a bit of a relapse these past two days and lost my buy-in after being up $100. this always seems to happen and it's do damn frustrating. the cards ran completely dry, i couldn't catch top pair decent kicker to save my life, and i havn't been getting paid off by anyone. on top of that, tables got so much looser and nobody was respecting raises like they used to.

very frustrating.

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

i had a bit of a relapse these past two days and lost my buy-in after being up $100. this always seems to happen and it's do damn frustrating. the cards ran completely dry, i couldn't catch top pair decent kicker to save my life, and i havn't been getting paid off by anyone. on top of that, tables got so much looser and nobody was respecting raises like they used to.

very frustrating.

Variance is far greater in 6-max...its very normal to lose a couple buyins in a session...very normal.

In the meantime, make sure you are building reads and defining where you are in each hand. First, make sure you identify the calling stations and tighten up against them post-flop. Some players will come along to the turn with A-high or any pair. Find out who they are and value bet them to death. Second, figure out who is willing to play back at you and look to trap them by mixing up your play, or else play back at them hard once to settle their punk-ass down. Third, find out who is weak/passive and look to take down pots or else define their holdings with strong bets on the flop.

In general, if I catch a piece of the flop or hold overpair, I make people pay a lot to see a turn, both for value and hand definition. This is essential in 6-max as well as full ring, but the damage can often be greater in 6-max if you don't do so.

I've also started playing 6max at the B2B sites as sometime that's all you can find, or the full(8) tables will often go shorthanded.

Seems table selection and position is much more important here. Just one or two poor-to-bad players will often spew chips. Try to stay out of the way of better players as much as possible. In a relatively short time I think my reading skills have improved, and it keeps me from being too TAGgy.

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

First, make sure you identify the calling stations and tighten up against them post-flop. Some players will come along to the turn with A-high or any pair. Find out who they are and value bet them to death. Second, figure out who is willing to play back at you and look to trap them by mixing up your play, or else play back at them hard once to settle their punk-ass down. Third, find out who is weak/passive and look to take down pots or else define their holdings with strong bets on the flop.
.

Awesome summary!!

Originally Posted by Aces

Seems table selection and position is much more important here. Just one or two poor-to-bad players will often spew chips. Try to stay out of the way of better players as much as possible. In a relatively short time I think my reading skills have improved, and it keeps me from being too TAGgy.

Couldn't agree more on table selection. It's so nice when you find an ATM that just keeps reloading and over betting pots....

Reading skills definetely improve a bunch, you'll find yourself snapping off a lot more bluffs as well... The only thing I don't like about 6max is that I can't multi-table it very well, I rely on reads way too much. Don't get me wrong, I can still hold my own playing three tables, but I don't feel very comfortable.... i wonder if it will come with more time...

I too have made (am making) the switch over to 6-max, and while it has been rough at times, I think it is definitely more profitable. As aces said, table selection is much more important in 6max versus full ring. I often find myself hopping from table to table if I don't like the one I'm at. You also get to play a lot more hands, and if there are bad players at the table, this means you take their money faster. The only drawback I have found is that I can't (at least not yet) play more than 2 tables effectively, although it probably has a lot to do with this crappy ass 15" pos monitor I have...

Important to note that once you get to 200NL/400NL and up, you pretty much have to learn 6-max. The full ring games are sparse, and often full of tight and solid players, whereas the loose fish still hang around at 6-max tables. Just something to note if you haven't reached 200NL yet. I read this numerous times on 2+2 and heard other FTR'ers (bmxicle I think) mention this as well.

PS. Just had my best day ever. +$750 in 3 hours, two-tabling. I am hoping 400NL is in my near future.

What's interesting is that I started playing some $25NL 6max because I could play a little and go (I don't have alot of time).

However, this actually doesn't work, unless you can take short breaks and not lose your seat. Table selection issues aside - 6 max is all about reads, and taking advantage of villians varied weaknesses.

It takes an hour (a LONG session for me, sadly) just to get good read on a guy. So my dreams of having something fun to do in 15-30 minutes stretches is kinda shattered.

That being said, 1 table SNGs are not really that intersting anymore either.