in which our brave hero c/r bluffs the river...

Villain is a kinda nitty, kinda passive, not the most thinking player in the world TAG. No recent or relevant historical information.

$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($1602.00)
BTN ($605.40)
SB ($645.75)
Hero ($1485.65)

Pre-flop: ($9, 4 players) Hero is BB
CO raises to $21, 2 folds, Hero calls $15

Flop: ($45, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $33.75, Hero calls $33.75

Turn: ($112.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($112.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $72, Hero raises to $244,

Actually this probably isn't a bluff at all and if it is it's a bad one... hmmm...

Yeah, I never got the level of thinking/opposition where c/r > call in spots like this. Maybe because I suck, maybe because my opponents suck, probably we all just play bad.

Seems like we have a good bluff catching hand and I don't see having villain much at all, possibly a backdoor flush.

Your repping a pretty thin range. If this guy can hand read at all he might just say if he has hearts its a cooler. 1010 is too strong to bluff here. I'd rather just bet the flop and go from there.

Originally Posted by meeloche

Your repping a pretty thin range. If this guy can hand read at all he might just say if he has hearts its a cooler. 1010 is too strong to bluff here. I'd rather just bet the flop and go from there.

You're donk leading T's on a K high board? whyyyy... unless you wanna get raised a huge amount of time!


As played, what I like about this bluff is that he never has a boat unless he rivered the set. He also rarely has Kx, and could be betting JJ/QQ/AA here a lot. What I don't like about it is that he can have the backdoor flush which he might not fold, even though you're repping a boat.

I'd prefer this bluff with like 45 or something with less SD value than TT.

Donking on this flop against a nitty/somewhat passive guy seems really bad to me. He will play every hand he has exactly correctly against that bet, except you might get a slightly favorable coinflip if he happens to have two big diamonds.

Back to the subject at hand, I don't like this bluff (?) at all. You're good a lot so just call. I don't know what he folds to that raise that you actually want him to fold - QQ/JJ maybe, but unless he's a real scaredypants he probably bets the turn most of the time with those hands.

I really think people are overestimating the amount of bluffs in his river range here. I always find that the bet/check/bet line gets looked up way too often because there's no implied threat component to the bluff. I also don't expect this guy to be capable of VBing mega thin in this river situation, like I wouldn't expect him to VB 88 here.

As such, I felt his range was mostly QQ/JJ/AA and hearts. Very rarely does he have a king/FH (and tbh I don't think even KT looks that strong on this river action). Sometimes he has bluffs I guess. So when I c/r I'd expect him to fold AA/QQ/JJ/bluffs and call with the rest.

It's pretty easy to think that I whiffed a c/r on the turn with Kx or a FH so I don't think my range looks that narrow or especially weak given the board. The only big problem I foresee is that he can put me on a missed diamond FD making some last ditch bluff and call kinda light because of that.

I agree with some of your analysis Irish but the only FH you're getting credit for after not c/r'ing this flop is 33, so I don't think he's ever folding a flush here... maybe a small one since he's nitty. And there's a good chance he vb's AA again on the turn so you're trying to bluff such a small range that I think c/c is better.

Do you not think that c/f river is >> c/c river? If not, is it because you assign him a bigger VB range or a bigger bluffing range?

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

I really think people are overestimating the amount of bluffs in his river range here. I always find that the bet/check/bet line gets looked up way too often because there's no implied threat component to the bluff. I also don't expect this guy to be capable of VBing mega thin in this river situation, like I wouldn't expect him to VB 88 here.

As such, I felt his range was mostly QQ/JJ/AA and hearts. Very rarely does he have a king/FH (and tbh I don't think even KT looks that strong on this river action). Sometimes he has bluffs I guess. So when I c/r I'd expect him to fold AA/QQ/JJ/bluffs and call with the rest.

It's pretty easy to think that I whiffed a c/r on the turn with Kx or a FH so I don't think my range looks that narrow or especially weak given the board. The only big problem I foresee is that he can put me on a missed diamond FD making some last ditch bluff and call kinda light because of that.

At first I thought C/C was best but after reading this I completely agree. A good point about the KT comment - from his situation would you say KT = QQ because your range is pretty polarised here? or would you play K9s the same way?

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Do you not think that c/f river is >> c/c river? If not, is it because you assign him a bigger VB range or a bigger bluffing range?

I would assign him a bigger bluffing range b/c your hand doesn't look like much and the board is scary. But it's a thin call and your read that he's nitty and passive could make it a c/f.

Ok so I wasn't paying attention and thought we were the pfr. Yeah donking isn't good flop is standard.