Preflop problems with a certain type

I am curious how to handle this type of player 25-30 VPIP and ~20+ PFR, who usually raises 4x, lets assume he is standard postflop. It is my understanding that I cannot profitable call with small PP's as his range is to wide. What type of hands are you 3betting this player with position and out of the blinds to his steal attempts?? As this player what types of hands will he 4bet when he adjusts to your light 3betiing?? Does anything change if he is raising only 3x??

How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop? Enlighten me.

Originally Posted by Warpe

How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop? Enlighten me.

I'm thinking this means he is less likely to go broke with a hand post flop when you spike your set so it's not very profitable to be playing these for set value alone anymore. But I'd like to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about on this too.

Why wouldn't you want to call with a PP. You'll be ahead most of the time preflop and if you think that you can outplay him on the flop I would say go for it.

How does him having a wide range negatively impact our ability to call with small pockets preflop?

Implied odds. The wider his range, the less amount of time he will flop enough of something to stack off with.

You just have to bluff these guys and call them down thin more if they are reasonable players (I am preparing to get flamed and wrote this knowing I'd get a reaction), who i assume you're talking about as nonreasonable players will stack off with crap.

Originally Posted by iceit

if you think that you can outplay him on the flop I would say go for it.

Why not play any two cards then if you feel you can just outplay him on the flop to take it down?

because outplaying someone postflop does not necessarily mean taking down a pot. it means losing less when behind, winning more when ahead, and taking pots that are available to be taken

To make playing pp's profitable against him, you have to bluff with them sometimes.

I agree with iowa mostly. outplay them in medium pots- 3bet pre, float cbets, occasionally call thin, etc. if they start adjusting to that, then tighten up. not sure what else to do though, maybe switch tables, lol?
oh, and start making thin calls or bluffs in big pots if you get good reads on how they play post flop.

I am not completely sure why PPs don't have the implied odds against these types. What if they you both have equal postflop skills? I play a 21/16 game normally, and I get 3bet a ton. I know you have to 3bet these 20+ PFR guys more, but with what range?

I have learned not to three bet these guys that light oop, In general, building a pot OOP without a good hand is a spew. Pretty much, I'll add all SC's to threebet versus an annoying button raiser but that's about it, unless h'es way out of line. You can't threebet too much with crap oop or you'll get no credit and no credit oop sucks.
If you are, persay on the BU versus an aggro preflop raiser in the CO, you can threebet the guy a hell of a lot. Most of the time he'll call with way too big of a range and be stuck because he has no position.
PP's don't have big of implied odds unless their crazy because they are folding a lot of flops and they are missing way more hands.

yea its only negative ev if u are calling solely for set value.

reraise them in position alot

I used to play pretty close to this (about 27/22ish)

When I felt ppl started to reraise me light I'd start 4-betting preflop right away.

I think you just have to be ready to go to war with much more marginal holdings. It's the only way to make it tough on them (although this may seem like it's "playing into their game") otherwise you'll get owned hard.

Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.

Originally Posted by Genitruc

Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.

wouldnt you love to play against someone who thought like this?

Originally Posted by gabe

Originally Posted by Genitruc

Showing them that you're not afraid of spewing a buy-in or two is very important imo.

wouldnt you love to play against someone who thought like this?

It would seem so but don't lots of big winners give off this impression (players like Straate and BBuddy come to mind)?

It's obv not an easy style to employ, but it's always tough playing ppl who make you think that your top pair/2nd pair is worth felting a high % of the time.

Plus, if they're aware that you know this, they'll adjust (obv this nth level stuff gets pretty sick but lots of ppl suck at it so playing someone who is used to thinking this tricky takes a lot of ppl out of their comfort zone)

reraise more preflop, raise the flop more with hands and force the looser player to bluff harder or giev away his hand. Basically, if you like your hand more raise.
When i play a 30/20 gameon stars i hate being reraised preflop, yet the range is so predictable is easy to resteal pots away from such players.

Originally Posted by gabe

reraise them in position alot

With what range?? 88+, SCs, AJo+, ATs+??

Originally Posted by Jager

Originally Posted by gabe

reraise them in position alot

With what range?? 88+, SCs, AJo+, ATs+??

lol sounds like you've been doing it forever!

cards dont matter too much as long as you know you are inside their head