Pwned by noobs (Pride is more important than money)

There are a couple of new comers at my work place, and today we decided to play some afterhour 1c/2c 4-handed poker. And I got pwned -- down $1.50 when it's all set and done.

I mean, these players are spongy calling stations. They will call very loose and then swoop in when I show weakness (like checking turn with AK on a T-high board. Since they play almost any 2 I tend to give them credit for holding rags when rags appear on board and they bet).

They know I play online, at higher limits than what we were playing, and they know I enjoy modest success. But they certainly didn't respect my bets and raises, and they have gotten into my head quite a bit.

Here are some sample hands. How do I combat them in the future?

1) I had As7s in SB and called a 7-cent button raise. BB called.
Flop KT8 w/ 2 spades and 1 club. I checked, BB bet 5c, I c/r to 25c, BB stuck around button called both raises. Turn 7d, I checked, checked around.
River 6c, checked around. BB had Q8 clubs and won the nice pot, button had J6 spades.

2) I called a min-raise (to 4c) from SB with 63 hearts in BB. 3 players saw the flop of 992 with 2 hearts, SB bet4c, I called. Turn was a King, SB checked, I went all-in for 42 cents, SB called with A2, and I didn't improve.

3) I raised to 12c with TcTh in SB. 3 players saw the flop of 876r. Checked around. Turn 8h. I bet 20c, button called. River Qd, I check-called 40c from button who showed 95 clubs for a straight.

4) I limped with KsJs on button. 4 players saw the flop 34J 2 diamonds. Checked to me, I bet 5 cents, only BB called. Turn 9h. BB donked 5 cents, I raised to 15c and was called. River Kd, BB went all-in for 24c. I called and prevailed with my 2 pairs, as BB showed Kc5c.

5) I completed with Tc7c in SB, board was AT5J8 no flush, checked to river when Button bet 4c, I called, and he showed QQ to take the pot.

6) I had Th4h in SB and saw a 3-way Q43 rainbow flop. I bet 5c, BB folded, button called. Turn was a J, I bet 10c, button called. River a 2, I checked, Button pushed me all-in for 45c, I called, he showed K3 and lost.

Playing against idiots can be really irritating, particularly if they're friends who would just LOVE to win a big pot vs. you. FWIW, when I'm playing against my donkey friends I just bet for value at first, until they realise that they aren't going to catch me on a big bluff. THEN once the penny has finally dropped, the bluffing can start.

Another way to do it is to tell them how they should have played every hand, until you have given them the most predictable lines, then steal their monies That way is slightly more devious tho and not really worth it at .01/.02

haha, make it 1/2 and see how they like it then. 1c/2c is so meaningless as not to be poker.

Just bet a lot when you have something good.

Originally Posted by larsmars

Just bet a lot when you have something good.

Betting alot and .01/.02 is kind of an oxymoron...

Just go all in when you have something good....

Yea check/raising a calling station when you have nothing? What are you trying to acomplish? Just value bet your good hands.

Good players arent good players because they can make fancy good plays. They are good players because they can gauge the tendencies of their opponents and adjust to them. Good players dont bluff calling stations.

edit: Thats assuming you are playing to win. In these games Im just playing to have fun so I tend to get drunk and bluff.

Originally Posted by Pelion

Yea check/raising a calling station when you have nothing? What are you trying to acomplish? Just value bet your good hands.

Good players arent good players because they can make fancy good plays. They are good players because they can gauge the tendencies of their opponents and adjust to them. Good players dont bluff calling stations.

edit: Thats assuming you are playing to win. In these games Im just playing to have fun so I tend to get drunk and bluff.

The 1st hand I had a flush draw (+overcard), but I couldn't get them to fold

Anyways here's an update.

We had another game today, and this time I lost again, just a bit, but losing never felt nice.

Two of these guys (I'll refer to their real name -- Chris and Simon) just love to bet. And overbet. Simon was especially difficult to handle. See below. The 3rd guy (his namee is Scott) is kind of passive loose straight-forward, and didn't provide the same nuisance as Simon did.

The seating plan was Scott-Chris-Simon-me

Some key hands:

1) I raised preflop to 12 with AK. Simon in the BB called. Flop was TT9r, Simon led out for 30, I thought he was full of crap and pushed AI for 44 in total. He had JJ and I didn't improve.

2) I had 55 in BB, heads-up with Scott who limped on button (Simon folded in SB), and I flopped a set on a Q54 rainbow flop. I check-raised Scott 2 to 5, he called. Turn was T, I bet 12, he called. River J, I put him AI for his last 24 or so, he called with J5.

3) I limped along with KT diamonds on the button. The 4-way flop was gorgeous for me KT8 with 2 diamonds. Blinds checked, UTG (Simon) bet 30!?. I just called, blinds folded. Turn was a low diamond completing the flush. He checked, so did I, with the intention to trap. River a 4th diamond (Qd), he put me all-in, I called, he showed Ad8c, and I wanted to kill myself.

4) I partially rebought and was dealt Q3 in the BB. 3-way flop of QT9 rainbow, giving me TP w/ no kicker. Check-check, Chris bet 20, Simon folded, I CRAI for a total of 54, Chris called with A9 and didn't improve.

5) It got 2-handed, I raised to 5 with T7 clubs in the SB. Simon called. Flop QT6 rainbow, I bet 10, he called. Turn K, I check-called 15. River an Ace, check-check, he showed K4 and took the nice pot.

6) Another heads-up hand with Simon. I had 55 in the BB and checked. Flop was 982, Simon led out for 25!?, I pushed AI for 72 total, he folded and showed 43 (and I also showed).

So I had some success, but the big mistakes prevented me from winning any significant amount. What's the correct plays that I should make to combat these unorthodox overbets (such as those in hands 3, 4, 6)?

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

Originally Posted by Pelion

Yea check/raising a calling station when you have nothing? What are you trying to acomplish? Just value bet your good hands.

Good players arent good players because they can make fancy good plays. They are good players because they can gauge the tendencies of their opponents and adjust to them. Good players dont bluff calling stations.

edit: Thats assuming you are playing to win. In these games Im just playing to have fun so I tend to get drunk and bluff.

The 1st hand I had a flush draw (+overcard), but I couldn't get them to fold

No you couldnt. And you already knew you couldnt before you bluffed. Make your hand and THEN bet it. It really is that simple in these games.


Ok so the cliff notes of those hands are that sometimes you made top pair+, you made big bets and they called down with pretty much nothing. Othertimes you had nothing or a draw, you made big bets and they called down with pretty much nothing. Stop Bluffiing, Semibluffing, Preflop raising with 57s and anything else that isnt straight forward make-hands-get-paid poker. Its really obvious that you dont need fancy plays to beat these games. Its slightly less obvious that fancy plays will almost certainly damage your winrate.

Decide why you are playing. Do you want to mess about and have fun or do you want to beat the games. If you want to mess about then raise 57s preflop, push allin with a 55 underpair when they will call with any pair and absolutely definately make big raises when all you hold is a (hopefully) 12 out draw out of position.

If you want to win then play really straightforward. Make some top pair hands and value bet them. Check/call reasonable amounts with draws and then value bet if/when you make them and noone believes you.

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

3) I limped along with KT diamonds on the button. The 4-way flop was gorgeous for me KT8 with 2 diamonds.

Wtf Hax?!

No offense, but you sound like a noob getting owned by noobs. I would kill this game from hand 1. Furthermore, there's a good chance you would be the first person I bust, because you're the most readable player in the game.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

No offense, but you sound like a noob getting owned by noobs. I would kill this game from hand 1. Furthermore, there's a good chance you would be the first person I bust, because you're the most readable player in the game.

There you go -- you hit the nail right on the head. That's why I'm posting for advices on how to successfully deviate from my online play.

Originally Posted by Pelion

If you want to win then play really straightforward. Make some top pair hands and value bet them. Check/call reasonable amounts with draws and then value bet if/when you make them and noone believes you.

When I got TP I'll go AI -- e.g. hand 4 of day 2. The problem is I just don't get dealt TP or better that often, certainly less frequently than, say, once in 6 hands, so if my opponents make, say, a 2x pot bet on every limped flop and I fold everything but TP or better, he would turn a profit.

I decided I had to try to pick my spots -- value bet thinner, and make tough calls, take the bad with the good believing (wrongly?) that the good outweighs the bad.

And BTW hand 3 of Day 2 the board was KJ8 2 diamonds not KT8.

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

Originally Posted by Rondavu

No offense, but you sound like a noob getting owned by noobs. I would kill this game from hand 1. Furthermore, there's a good chance you would be the first person I bust, because you're the most readable player in the game.

There you go -- you hit the nail right on the head. That's why I'm posting for advices on how to successfully deviate from my online play.

Nit it up.

I finally made my statement on Thursday, as I went from $1.40 to $6.86.

I got lucky a few times, but I also extracted good values when I had the best hand, whether thru a suckout or throughout the entire hand.

I'm starting to acquire reads. Chris overbets when he has something marginal (e.g. flop middle pair). Simon is more focused in mind games and still poses problems for me -- I traded a big pot with him, and I had a small edge on him on this day.

A few big hands:
1) 3-handed, Simon limped, I checked in BB with 84 clubs and bet 5c into the 3-way 224 rainbow flop. Simon min-raised, I called. Turn As, He bet 10. I didn't know what he's up to. I called, planning to c-call river, up to 15 or so. But I river another 4 for the house. I checked, he bet 50!? I check-raised AI for another 8. He called with JJ.

2) I had AA in BB and raised to 12 preflop. Simon called from the button. Flop JT9. Not good, but I'm not folding my AA coz I believe he'll go broke with TP or pair+gutshot. I bet 20, he raised to 40, I raised AI for 135, of course he called with KQ. Why(TF) does this have to happen to me? How else should I have played?

3) I didn't let that hand drag me down. I next flopped TP with red unsuited K2 from BB, board KJ9 2 spades. I c/r Simon 5 to 15, he called. Turn a red 4, I bet 40 he called. River 8 no flush, I check-called 100, Simon had J6. Nice pot, but missed value? He had about 50 behind.

4) We were about to leave, and I limped with T3 spades from the button. Chris bet 20 into a 6c pot on a JT3 rainbow flop!? Great. He doesn't play strong hands this way, so I had to be ahead. I just called, with the plan to shove any non-J turn. Turn was a 9. I didn't like that card that much, but I still believed I was ahead, so I shoved over his 30 bet for ~230 in total. He hesitated, called with QT, and I realized that he had a gazillion outs, but he didn't improve.

5) The last hand saw me raise to 7 preflop with A8 in the BB. Scott called and then shoved the AT2 2-diamond flop for 75. I instant called, he was devastated as he flipped over A7. Turn was a T, and river was a 7 that sent fear down my spine, but I soon realized he 3-paired, and I still had him outkicked.