A question about approaching the current games state

I'm a regular at the 50NL Stars 6max games. What I've seen happen the last 1 to 2 months is that the games are overly loaded with tags and nits. It's really an exception to find a table with more than 1 clear fish on it these days.

Although it's not that shocking that games are getting harder, at Stars 50NL things are really getting fast these last 2 months.
One might say that these games are still easily beatable and they might very well be. But it's definately clear that winrates are dropping fast.

I'm close to clearing my 300 bucks bonus on Stars and I'm thinking of taking a different road. The two options I'm seeing are;

1- Take a shot at HU. It's something I want to do for a while and the SNG's I've played till now I reall enjoyed.
The HU cash games at Stars only start at 50NL though and I have no idea how good the competition is, but I assume HU games are generally tougher than the 6max games on the same stake?

2- Move my money to another site. I'm European so I can chose any site I want. I always played Stars because I like the software and the playerpool is big, but those aren't really priorities anymore when winrates are dropping.


Any recommendations and/or thoughts of the development of the games?

HU becomes a bum hunt fest above 1/2nl and I wouldn't recommend trying to get into that mess. If stars fixes the hu situation I could change my mind but I would be extremely frustrated trying to get hands in at those limits.

As for 50nl yeah its very likely softer on euro sites. But you may just have to get better at table selecting. Stars has a ridiculous amount of tables to choose from. I have a hard time believing that you can't find 6 tables with at least 2 ppl giving it away.

NL 50 on Stars is also my current game, with some 100 NL as well. I usually play 4 tables. My minimum is 2 fish at a table at 50 and 3 fish at 100. I seem to have no problem doing this. I might take a bit more time in table selecting than most. I take a lot of notes. The new color coding system on Stars can help a ton because the color icon can be viewed from the lobby. If Im on a table and I dont feel it profitable I leave right a way and grab another table.

Are you using any table selection tool MinSim? Have you tried buying 500K hands and loading them into HM/PT and using Spadeeye or some other table search tool? I am playing $50NL on FT right now and have no problems finding fish, if only I could hit some draws vs their slow playing asses.

Actually to clarify, playing some hu is definitely gonna be beneficial to your game. I just wouldn't recommend making it exclusively the only game you play.

The games are definitely getting harder, but remember that December is the worst month to play Stars because all the ppl chasing their milestones clog the tables... kinda like 2x vpp week

for me this is the last year stars gets my exclusive business, partly for the above reason.


also, if you're euro and playing on stars i find that shocking... what i wouldnt give to get on all the euro sites and RB deals...

Originally Posted by mixchange

The games are definitely getting harder, but remember that December is the worst month to play Stars because all the ppl chasing their milestones clog the tables... kinda like 2x vpp week

for me this is the last year stars gets my exclusive business, partly for the above reason.


also, if you're euro and playing on stars i find that shocking... what i wouldnt give to get on all the euro sites and RB deals...

prima has worse games than stars because of its RB deals

jyms - Getting a tableselection tool is great advance, hadn't thought of getting one in a while, but it's probably worth the 30 dollars or so. Any recommendations about where I should get some handhistories?

meeloche - I think once I get into HU I'll find it a lot more entertaining than 6max. It will probably take a while for me to get to 1/2NL though. Do you know anything about the level of HU games compared to 6max?

dragon - do I get you right that you're finding more fish at 100NL then 50NL?

mixchange - I always played Stars because I liked their software (including it being always supported by scripts and tools) and the big playerpool. I have had times I played 12 or 16 tables and having enough tables to choose from is a pro then. I've brought that down to 6, max 9 tables though.

My plan has always been to get to 100NL and get a rakeback deal somewhere then. I have bonuswhored my bankroll up on some euro sites in the past, but never played FT or certain eurosites that have great rakeback deals, so I could get one once I hit 100NL. Maybe this is a good time to switch. I'm hitting 100NL anyway, so this might be a good time.

I have no trouble finding 6 tables with at least one v poor player at FTs 50nl and 100nl games. There are also plenty of two tabling "regs" who are huge losers and still put in decent volume during euro mornings

Originally Posted by minSim

dragon - do I get you right that you're finding more fish at 100NL then 50NL?

This is what I asked my coach lol. Like he said i am prob super table selecting there. Its a lot easier to find 1 super fishie table than 4-6. I usually play 3 50 tables and super select my 100 table. If I dont see a 100 table that I like, I open a 4tf 50 table and check back 100 in a few mins.

I have never used a table selection tool. Has anyone used HEMs? But I do have a pretty big database. And I feel that gives me better table selection.

Originally Posted by meeloche

Actually to clarify, playing some hu is definitely gonna be beneficial to your game. I just wouldn't recommend making it exclusively the only game you play.

why not, must be way more profitable than 6max at those stakes, if u game select im sure theres plenty of whales willing to donate their money

Originally Posted by Dragon Slayer

I have never used a table selection tool. Has anyone used HEMs?

I use it and it paid for itself pretty quickly. Very useful in finding the best tables available as long as you have a decent database at the site you are playing.

OP - have you tried PLO? A small factor in NLHE getting harder is that a greater % of fish now play PLO instead. With reference to nosebleeds - Monkey see, monkey do. I can only speak for the Euro site I mainly play but there is no table selection necessary when I play 25PL or 50PL. 50NL & 100NL is still my main game but if I can get better at PLO I can see myself playing more of that when NLHE game selection is not as good.

Originally Posted by Alexos

Originally Posted by meeloche

Actually to clarify, playing some hu is definitely gonna be beneficial to your game. I just wouldn't recommend making it exclusively the only game you play.

why not, must be way more profitable than 6max at those stakes, if u game select im sure theres plenty of whales willing to donate their money

While that's certainly true, the rake is extreemly high at 50nl hu and it just seems like a better long run plan is to move up the ranks playing 6 max with hu on the side instead of the other way around.

Starting 6max tables is where I essentially learned hu and its helped my 6 max game since you play a variety of players hu and usually have games that are 3-4 handed which also benefits you if you're always adjusting. Thats a much better way to learn poker than just joining full tables all the time imo.

Originally Posted by Shifubowa

Originally Posted by Dragon Slayer

I have never used a table selection tool. Has anyone used HEMs?

I use it and it paid for itself pretty quickly. Very useful in finding the best tables available as long as you have a decent database at the site you are playing.

OP - have you tried PLO? A small factor in NLHE getting harder is that a greater % of fish now play PLO instead. With reference to nosebleeds - Monkey see, monkey do. I can only speak for the Euro site I mainly play but there is no table selection necessary when I play 25PL or 50PL. 50NL & 100NL is still my main game but if I can get better at PLO I can see myself playing more of that when NLHE game selection is not as good.

I bought the table scanner for HEM. I do have a pretty large database so I usually get back "reads" on 50% to 60% of players on 50/100 at any given time. Once I worked some of the kinks. It seems ok, if not a little clumsy. Im still messin with it though. I would like the idea of purchasing some HH if I didnt have a large database. I think the are pretty cheap? And I think its a great tool for table selection. U sit at a table of "unknowns" and once stats pop up, no fish leave and try again. The new color coding system in PS really helps because you can see the color you assign in the lobby. It takes a while to go though and note a bunch of people but its worth it! Especially when trying to break into a new level like me at 100.

Buying HH's is cheap and easy ($44/1,000,000 recent hands) and will give you a history on about 80% of the players on the site at your stakes. It will also help point out the regs and give you a shit ton of hands on them so you can find the weakness's there as well. I buy them whenever I move sites or move up.

If you do not already know, as long as you have the table scanner and the latest HEM Beta, you can now add a stat in your HUD which tells you how many tables villain is playing. I have been 3 betting mass multi tablers and getting fold after fold.

you need to bluff a lot more

Originally Posted by Shifubowa

If you do not already know, as long as you have the table scanner and the latest HEM Beta, you can now add a stat in your HUD which tells you how many tables villain is playing. I have been 3 betting mass multi tablers and getting fold after fold.

Cool I did not know this, very very nice!