Reading is fundamental

***** Hand History for Game 4327706956 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 21, 17:31:12 ET 2006
Table Table 107918 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: stressball10 ( $24.15 )
Seat 2: thegrandgee ( $22.60 )
Seat 4: dbtwentytwo ( $24.25 )
Seat 5: Kingston_kid ( $52.23 )
Seat 6: Isabell001 ( $18 )
Seat 3: TheAlmighty1 ( $20.45 )
stressball10 posts small blind [$0.10].
thegrandgee posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Ks Qs ]
TheAlmighty1 folds.
dbtwentytwo folds.
Kingston_kid calls [$0.25].
Isabell001 folds.
stressball10 calls [$0.15].
thegrandgee checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Tc, 5h ]
stressball10 bets [$0.50].
thegrandgee folds.
Kingston_kid raises [$3].
stressball10 calls [$2.50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
stressball10 checks.
Kingston_kid is all-In [$48.98]
stressball10 is all-In [$20.90]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
stressball10 shows [ Ks, Qs ] a pair of kings.
Kingston_kid shows [ Kd, 4h ] a pair of kings.
Kingston_kid wins $28.08 from side pot #1 with a pair of kings.
stressball10 wins $46.15 from the main pot with a pair of kings with queen kicker.
TheAlmighty1 has left the table.

i dont get it. kingston guy played the hand terribly.

Nh.

A read can be quite profitable indeed..

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $675.62
CO: $1316.93
Button: $380.00
SB: $611.60
Hero: $496.00

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with K A
UTG raises to $32, 3 folds, Hero raises to $76, UTG raises all-in $643.62, Hero calls all-in $420.
Uncalled bets: $147.62 returned to UTG.

Flop: T 9 7 ($994, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $994)


Turn: J ($994, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $994)


River: 5 ($994, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $994)


Results:
Final pot: $994
UTG shows Ac 6c

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

i dont get it. kingston guy played the hand terribly.

Yes, he did. And without understanding the read I had on him, one would think I did as well. I would never make this same call on an unknown player, but in the course of about 15 previous hands, Kingston Kid had pulled the following shenanigans:

- Raised a .50 bet all in, on a flop of QQ9, when he held A9 and the pot was under $3 (and got called by 93 suited - that's where his stack came from)

- With a $1 pot and a prior .25 bet on a seemingly harmless flop of KJ5 rainbow, raised to 6.50 (hand unknown, it wasn't shown down)

- Flat-called a bet on the flop when he flopped trips, then pushed the turn (for about double the pot) when checked to

That was really all it took for me to figure out that this guy was big on defining and defending his weaker hands right on the flop, but didn't mind slowplaying a street with a stronger holding to try to get an extra bet from his opponent. This hand he didn't raise pre-flop (giving me no thought of him having AK) but his dramatic flop raise suggested to me that he had a king only - ergo it almost had to be a king with a worse kicker than mine. Instead of trying to define my own hand and get more information and all that happy crap, I slowed down and let him push a lot of chips my direction. Once I called the flop, I knew checking the turn was going to result in a push, and I was 80% sure I had him beat.

A lot of my hands are "weird" but totally read-specific. It's nothing special..

Originally Posted by jackvance

A lot of my hands are "weird" but totally read-specific. It's nothing special..

No, it's not - and that's the point. A lot of times on FTR there's a sort of "prevailing wisdom" along the lines of this: "Never call an all in with just a pair" or "If someone raises you twice they have your top pair/top kicker beat." And while that's often true, I just wanted to point out again that a lot of players aren't playing by the book. I use the prevailing wisdom to play against unknowns, but I'll start making read-specific decisions within two or three orbits at any table.

Do you find that multi-tabling (say, x8 tables) inhibits your ability to make reads? Or do you pick up quickly regardless of the number of tables your are playing?

Thanks for the examples.

I never multi-table more than 2 at a time any more, & have never regularly played more than three. But yes, it definitely does diminish your ability to make reads. When you get into serious multi-tabling you have to start making "percentage plays" more often than reads. You start reacting to how most players play instead of analyzing each individual. It's less profitable per table, but if you're running 4+ tables at once that doesn't matter much.

Currently I usually run two tables at a time and I feel like my reads are good with that setup. With three I always felt a bit pressed to make decisions more quickly, and I couldn't observe players as well. On the rare occasions I've opened up four, I felt a serious negative impact on my playing ability.

I agree, good post Coop. People need to see this for what it is and quit trying to pawn everybody. I got it from the subject alone, but your second post did a fine job of explaining the point of the post.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

No, it's not - and that's the point. A lot of times on FTR there's a sort of "prevailing wisdom" along the lines of this: "Never call an all in with just a pair" or "If someone raises you twice they have your top pair/top kicker beat." And while that's often true, I just wanted to point out again that a lot of players aren't playing by the book. I use the prevailing wisdom to play against unknowns, but I'll start making read-specific decisions within two or three orbits at any table.

Ah ok, I just thought this was common knowledge. My bad if it was not.

I was eight-tabling during both of these hands.


EAT THAT BITCHES.



***** Hand History for Game 4202516333 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, May 06, 19:46:30 ET 2006
Table Table 107159 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: Bomber_Gerd ( $536.22 )
Seat 3: Renton555 ( $399.60 )
Seat 4: maluw ( $187.04 )
Seat 7: cheet ( $356.75 )
Seat 9: HotButtMudd2 ( $434.55 )
Seat 6: comeforcash ( $340 )
Seat 2: sf_h2005 ( $190.25 )
Seat 10: pokerix69 ( $40.20 )
Seat 8: Berge20 ( $212 )
Seat 1: dave1979777 ( $193 )
Renton555 posts small blind [$1].
maluw posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Jh Kh ]
Bomber_Gerd folds.
comeforcash folds.
cheet folds.
Berge20 folds.
HotButtMudd2 raises [$6].
pokerix69 folds.
dave1979777 folds.
sf_h2005 folds.
Renton555 calls [$5].
maluw folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, Js, 6d ]
Renton555 checks.
HotButtMudd2 bets [$11].
Renton555 calls [$11].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
Renton555 checks.
HotButtMudd2 bets [$30].
Renton555 calls [$30].
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
Renton555 checks.
HotButtMudd2 bets [$75].
Renton555 calls [$75].
HotButtMudd2 shows [ 8c, 9c ] a pair of sevens.
Renton555 shows [ Jh, Kh ] two pairs, jacks and sevens.
Renton555 wins $243 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and sevens.



***** Hand History for Game 4185498333 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, May 04, 18:54:35 ET 2006
Table Table 107180 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: robertkellom ( $188.18 )
Seat 3: der_pott_is_mir ( $266.26 )
Seat 5: Renton555 ( $313 )
Seat 7: TunaMonkey ( $269.85 )
Seat 9: kamyshen ( $134.90 )
Seat 4: CoDefendant ( $140 )
TunaMonkey posts small blind [$1].
kamyshen is sitting out.
der_pott_is_mir posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Jh Jc ]
kamyshen has left the table.
CoDefendant folds.
Renton555 raises [$8].
TunaMonkey folds.
der_pott_is_mir calls [$6].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 8d, 2c ]
der_pott_is_mir bets [$40].
Renton555 calls [$40].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
der_pott_is_mir bets [$85].
Renton555 is all-In.
der_pott_is_mir is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
>You have options at Poker Crux Table!.
der_pott_is_mir shows [ 8s, 4s ] a pair of eights.
Renton555 shows [ Jh, Jc ] a pair of jacks.
Renton555 wins $46.74 from side pot #1 with a pair of jacks.
Renton555 wins $531.52 from the main pot with a pair of jacks.
CoDefendant has left the table.

How could you possibly get that read for Hand #2, while 8-tabling? Or did you just go with PokerTracker or your usual play here?

der_pott was an awful lag. I'd played with him before and had notes and a lot of logged hands (pokerace) against him.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Ah ok, I just thought this was common knowledge. My bad if it was not.

Just reminding all of us about a basic principle of poker that tends to be ignored at times. You see a lot of "that's a call every time at 25 NL" or "I'd fold that all day long" around here; you also see a lot of posts of hand histories with no mention of reads, table texture, etc. This is definitely a basic point, not advanced poker theory, but we get a lot of noob traffic - there has to be a counterbalance to the "no read, will travel" attitude (which admittedly, still makes me a lot of money).

Originally Posted by dalecooper

You see a lot of "that's a call every time at 25 NL" or "I'd fold that all day long" around here;

These annoy me to no end and I generally try to ignore them these days. And yeah, you're totally right to post this, I just misread the purpose at first.

Here's a "read dependant" play of mine.. probably makes me look like a donk but I knew what I was doing

** Game ID 802507246 starting - 2006-05-23 03:40:45
** Butro Beans [Hold em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- danp15 sitting in seat 1 with $10.35
- Sjoel sitting in seat 2 with $19.37
- jonbjo sitting in seat 3 with $3.20
- lawtpoker sitting in seat 4 with $4.49
- jackvance sitting in seat 5 with $8.30
- Tigger_66 sitting in seat 6 with $9.65 [Dealer]
danp15 posted the small blind - $0.05
Sjoel posted the big blind - $0.10
** Dealing card to jackvance: 8 of Clubs, Ace of Spades
jonbjo folded
lawtpoker called - $0.10
jackvance raised - $0.50
Tigger_66 folded
danp15 folded
Sjoel folded
lawtpoker called - $0.50
** Dealing the flop: 10 of Clubs, 9 of Spades, Ace of Clubs
lawtpoker checked
jackvance bet - $0.60
lawtpoker went all-in - $3.99
jackvance called - $3.99
lawtpoker shows: Jack of Spades, Queen of Spades
** Dealing the turn: 10 of Diamonds
** Dealing the river: Jack of Diamonds
jackvance wins $8.83 from the main pot
End of game 802507246