so my plan f'd up, now what? (50nl deepish)

so villain is floaty and bluffy but to be completely honest im not paying as much attention as i shud because i was watching the leaf game. when he calls the flop i figure not much worse flats my turn bet so id rather check and let him spew. table is really fishy but he seems okay, he should think im quite solid. what do u think of the plan and do u ever call this?

first instinct that a4/a7 made hands turned bluffs, but he also has AJ here n there... 77/44 maybe, or even like a kj/qj float that hit

iPoker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - iPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($109.97)
SB ($35.93)
BB ($48.77)
Hero (UTG) ($229.58)
MP ($53.53)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, Q
Hero bets $1.75, 1 fold, Button calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($5.75) 4, 7, A (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.50, Button calls $4.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($14.75) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero calls $8

River: ($30.75) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $95.72 (All-In)

Total pot: $30.75

i think i would bet/fold the turn, and the river is an easy fold

it seems like a weird line since i would easily c/shove or b/c the turn here 100bbs deep vs this guy

I'd b/f the turn and this is a very easy fold

This is NOT an easy fold.

I think this is a reasonably easy fold. He's calling an utg open to begin with preflop which limits his range somewhat, and also puts in more AKs into his range than he would normally have. He's flatting your cbet on an A high board, and the board is def. dry enough to flat strong hands.

There are just very very few air hands that he gets to the river with. Foldddorama.

I did fold but I felt dumb folding tpgk to some fishdonk. say i bet turn and he calls do i c/f river or shove?

c/f is stupid and if i bet im committed so basically im in the same spot as i am in now except that i have zero chance of picking off a bluff...

While villain's line makes no sense, most fish aren't going to make some random 200 BB bluff into a medium-sized pot with air on an Ace high board (this is a board they're far less likely to make moves on) and they're DEFINITELY not doing this with a made hand like a7/a4 that got counterfeited, they simply just don't think like that. Unless you've seen this specific villain do crazy stuff like this, this is a very easy fold.

So you guys fold your whole range here? Sweet.

Originally Posted by eragotte

table is really fishy but he seems okay

Originally Posted by eragotte

I did fold but I felt dumb folding tpgk to some fishdonk.

WTF???

Originally Posted by pocketfours

So you guys fold your whole range here? Sweet.

its 3x pot, he has some air getting to river but no one really bluffs like this unless you have a read otherwise. we dont say id have to go along with the crowd in saying its an easy fold. if it were pot or less i would gleefully call of course

also there is no way in hell he would turn a7 or a4 into a bluff lol

so what's the worst you call with then? (he never has AK so were presumably tossing that too...)

I did fold but I felt dumb folding tpgk to some fishdonk.

sorry that was a dumb post, paying more attention afterwards he was bad, but I didnt know that at the time, ignore that

Originally Posted by pocketfours

So you guys fold your whole range here? Sweet.

Well I think it's fair to say that most of us aren't playing the hand like this. Where most ppl are probably just barreling.

What would you do if you bet 8, 25 and he shipped river over you?

What would you do if you bet 8, 25 and he shipped river over you?

it would more likely be like 12.5, 30 if it were me, and i would have to fold river for 60 more i guess...

Originally Posted by nutsinho

its 3x pot, he has some air getting to river but no one really bluffs like this unless you have a read otherwise. we dont say id have to go along with the crowd in saying its an easy fold. if it were pot or less i would gleefully call of course

It really tilts me to discuss about hands where OP seems totally clueless, so I guess I won't bother. But I do think the arguments presented by all of you are weak at best.

I also don't think that you, ISF or griffey have much to gain by discussing 50NL strategy, where optimal play is extremely exploitable. I'm playing these stakes nowadays (well slightly higher), and I'm TELLING you that this is not at all as clear cut as you think, but you obviously shouldn't give a fuck about what P4's think is correct at 50nl, it's just irrelevant for you.

Originally Posted by nutsinho

also there is no way in hell he would turn a7 or a4 into a bluff lol

Yeah, this made me lol as well.

As played its a fold. Your hand is pretty face up and hes probably just trying to get a hero call.

Whats the plan for the river if we bet and get called on the turn?

P4: Could you explain some of your thought process?

I mean, what's the thought process going on at 50nl? Zomg villain just checked to me twice, I'll overbet THREE TIMES THE POT to get him to fold his hand? Is that really how ppl think?

We have to be right here like, very often?

Maybe this guy just read the thread on 2+2 about overbetting the river?

Originally Posted by Alexos

P4: Could you explain some of your thought process?
I mean, what's the thought process going on at 50nl? Zomg villain just checked to me twice, I'll overbet THREE TIMES THE POT to get him to fold his hand? Is that really how ppl think?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Alexos

We have to be right here like, very often?

No, just 43%.

I was talking to this hand with m2m yesterday but didn't post anything. I thought it was closer then *autofold river*. My basic thoughts are that a bunch of stupid shit missed that will probably bet the turn for this amount( does he really 1/2 pot sets/AJ ?????) But he probably would w/ like 56s/86s/KQ/KT/QT or w/e. We look super weak and if villain is "bluffy" and "floaty" I don't hate a call. Btw I think he almost never overbet jams a random Jx like KJ/QJ but I guess that could be wrong and would actually make more sense w/ the turn bet sizing then like 44.

With the button only calling preflop, I think you can rule out AK as his hand, but AJ is possible at this point. He probably has a medium to low pocket pair or suit connectors. The flop call is either a set (most likely) or an up&down straight draw playing 56. I figure that AJ has a good chance of raising your flop bet to protect against a drawing hand from the big blind. His call is either a draw or a monster where he wants to keep the big blind in the hand. His turn bet isn't overly big indicating that he probably wants to keep you around. When the 2nd jack hits on the river, he either has nothing (a busted draw) or a boat. The massive overbet indicates a boat, as that's how a lot of low stakes players bet the river with a monster hand. They figure, "He might just call me, so why not overbet shove" as opposed to betting a more reasonable amount like $20.

If the flop were more draw heavy i think we could put a lot more air into his range by the river. The only real draw is 56. If he did take a card off i think he would def try and bet the turn larger as a bluff on the turn. Some stats on this guy would be really helpful. I do honestly think this guy is just frustrated that he couldn't build a bigger pot with what he had and spazzed out and shoved. AJ is also a big part of his range along with sets which would play similarly on the turn.

Still think this is quite an easy fold.