Soild thin call?

Guy is LAGGtard, I think he plays 55-88, TT, missed draw this way. Bet the turn? Fold the river?
PokerStars Game #7414150322: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/12 - 16:52:54 (ET)
Table 'Platzeck' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Triaxe95 ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 2: svist ($200.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Capn486 ($90.55 in chips)
Seat 4: tilleul4 ($29.25 in chips)
Seat 5: redgrape ($54.80 in chips)
Seat 6: MiMiF ($79.90 in chips)
Capn486: posts small blind $0.25
tilleul4: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Jc Js]
redgrape: raises $1.50 to $2
MiMiF: calls $2
Triaxe95: folds
svist: folds
Capn486: folds
tilleul4: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4c 4s]
redgrape: bets $3
MiMiF: calls $3
*** TURN *** [Kc 4c 4s] [9d]
redgrape: checks
MiMiF: bets $7
redgrape: calls $7
*** RIVER *** [Kc 4c 4s 9d] [Qh]
redgrape: checks
MiMiF: bets $18
redgrape: calls $18

If's he's so bad why not find a better spot?

Originally Posted by Galapogos

If's he's so bad why not find a better spot?

What if i'm beating him now? What IS +EV AT THE RIVER?

Having the best hand at showdown is +EV on the river. Folding is 0EV.

I think youre beat and can find a better spot.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I think youre beat and can find a better spot.

Does this logic really apply in cash games? My question is should I call the river, It's not like I'm losing essential chips that could cost me later.

I think a LAGGTARD would raise a four on the flop, but couldn't you see him playing a K this way? I guess you put him on a flush draw or something?

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by euphoricism

I think youre beat and can find a better spot.

Does this logic really apply in cash games?

of course not

I think you're beat most of the time and just spewing.

Originally Posted by Galapogos

If's he's so bad why not find a better spot?

What is it with people saying this about cash games??

What if we are ahead here now? What if we dont make the call and someone else does and he leaves and we cant get a better spot. What if we call as a 60/40 favorite and bust? oh wait... we rebuy.

This is terrible cash game logic. All that matters in this situation is that we find the option with the best chip EV and we pick it. If we make a mistake or he sucks out then we rebuy but we have to work with the information we have right now.

The only reason you have to be more cautious in a tournament is because you cant rebuy. That clearly doesnt apply here.

As for this question you have put him on a range yourself. Do you beat that range often enough? If you do you call. Depending on how Laggy and Tardy he is here I think its a +EV calldown (although not as much as on a low flop). Im sure he doesnt always bet that big though. Try to figure out if his bet size is a tell.

edit: FWIW if the flop is low and the K comes later I dont think its even close to thin against this villain.

Originally Posted by Massimo

I think a LAGGTARD woul raise a four on the flop, but couldn't you see him playing a K this way? I guess you put him on a flush draw or something?

I think just as much a flush draw raises the flop as a 4. I put him on TT-22 with no 99 or 44. and maybe a missed flush draw. A K probably bets like half the pot or checks behind on the river.

I think the call down here is fine. My guess is that he has a weak K or a smaller PP. Even if your beat here I think he will give you more action later, players like this tend to feel that they are better than you after they take a pot from you. They will try to outplay you every time afterwards.

As far as the 'finding a better spot' argument goes, I will consider this when the villain is super aggro. I am not willing to call PSB's down to the river with a hand like this that a super aggro will play holding TT. Therefore I think you can find a better spot against these types of donks.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Massimo

I think a LAGGTARD woul raise a four on the flop, but couldn't you see him playing a K this way? I guess you put him on a flush draw or something?

I think just as much a flush draw raises the flop as a 4. I put him on TT-22 with no 99 or 44. and maybe a missed flush draw. A K probably bets like half the pot or checks behind on the river.

If he never has a good hand here then the call is hardly thin. What makes you think he's not slow playing something? I think the call is thin if you only read is "laggtard"

I make this call a lot against bad post-flop players. I say you're good 75% of the time (based off your read). Although some people do play Kx this way. That being said, I hope you play AK the same way.

I would argue that calling a $12 bet here is more -eV than calling this $18 bet.