Strategy for playing against many LAGS

Right, for a while Ive been trying to figure decent strategies to deal with the players at my current poker room. I'm certain many of these players have heard the common quote 'winning poker is all about aggression' and take it quite to an extreme. They've probably watched High Stakes GSN also, and try to replicate the lagginess shown there.

After table selection, the average player seems to be 40 / 10 / 2-3. There is also a whole bunch of 50 / 20's and even alot of 70/30's.

I always pick the juiciest 5max tables which normally consist of two at 35 or 40/10's and two at higher, say 60 / 15's, or 65 / 30 etc.

Naturally these guys also tend to be very aggressive post flop.

The problem is I cant play a proper decent style that id like, where I run at 18/10 and raise limpers, raise LP, raise some MP rags, get a loose enough image and get paid off more. I cant do this because too often there will be a caller preflop and the effectiveness of CB's is very low. Ontop of this there will often be more than one caller preflop - where CBing seems out of the question. On the flip side, raising QTo from MP *may* be profitable when players are calling with weaker hands? However I think raising these hands also needs some CB value.

This has all led me to tighten up, possibly too much? My last 600 hands Ive ran at 15 / 6. I think this may actually be a good figure for these tables. I also add a fair bit of selective passivity, which is annoying.. its not very fun but it I think its a profitable here when people bluff too much. For example this hand here vs one of the typical 60/30 lags. Obviously I get aggressive when I need to, eg build a huge pot or have a nice draw in possition.

One concern is that I may look too tight, and have a terrible image.

Questions:

Will Players think they can run over me even more and throw more aggression my way? Would this be a bad thing or a good thing?

Stratergy ideas so far:

• PFR less (6, 8% max)
  CB less
  Play good selective passivity, check call to pick of bluffs.
  Semi-Bluff less
  Value Bet more when in position. OOP play more passive and check call more.

Thoughts and ideas found elsewhere:

Sklansky, TOP:

Code:

Type of Mistake:               Best Stratergy:
Bluffs too much                Induce a bluff, then call

Never folds a fair             Never Bluff (on the end) and be sure to come out               
hand on the end               betting a decent hand

Rarely folds a                   Dont Slowplay, bet decent hands for value           
fair hand on any                             
round                             

Plays too loose                 Play solid poker and cut down on your bluffs

Plays loose on                  Play solid cards but play them weakly             
early rounds then                             
aggressivly later on

These all seem fine apart from this one:

Code:

Semi_Bluffs too much         Semi-bluff raise

Sklansky says how semi-bluffs are very hard to defend against and the only way is to fold or semi-bluff yourself. I think a low frequency of semi-bluffing at my tables would be best, where the lag players tend to have high WTSD% s >25.

Muddywater, on playing lag 'Adapting with a LAG style'

There are many differences between the play in a 5/10nl game and a .50/1nl game. Two examples of differences are that players at 5/10nl pay much more attention to position and will fold much more often. With this in mind, one must tighten up at the lower limits. It doesn't pay to watch players at higher levels and exactly emulate their play. The basic principles that they use hold true at all levels, but are applied differently. I still consider the way I play at lower limits LAG, but I don't play nearly as loose as I do at the higher games. The most important principle to apply to lower limits is position. However, it doesn't pay to blindly raise in position. The effectiveness of continuation bets is much lower at the smaller stakes. That fact alone means that a successful player must tighten up. In addition, semi-bluffs decrease in effectiveness as well.

About my game and something which may need work:

Currently I only really call pre-flop raises with AQo+ and PP's. Should I be calling with a wider range? And from what positions? Under PT Position Stats my ColdCall PF%s are

BTN: 2.7%
1: 0.6%
2: 0%
BB: 0%
SB: 0%

Currently, I do not try to float. Should I bother trying at these tables vs the LAGs, vs the pdd random TAGs? This would also bump up my ColdCalling Preflop %s.

Would like to hear any opinions regarding all of this. Any other ideas to play well at these tables and improve my game, deal with the lags?

You seem to be pretty introspecive about your play, so Im sure that eventually youll adjust to you opponents style.

At a loose table i usually play tight/aggressive, if you are getting a lot of action when you do raise theres no point for image-plays, so id just play the game straight up, with large raises with decent cards from the LP and tight play from UTG and the blinds. Youre going to get action anyway.

As for cbs, you have to put them out there hu even if they havent beem working for you very well, something that has been working for me very well against the lags at nl 400 is weak c-bets (when you have made your hand) i have found that a very quick bet of 1/2 the pot on the flop will often induce a reraise by a lag (i still fall for weak bets all the time). Just call this after 5-10 secs and hes bound to throw another big bet on the turn. I have been winning huge pots with this simple move against hyper aggressive players, Only problem is that your sometimes forced to make a tough call on the flop with top pair only, so if you try this make sure you have the stomach to call the reraise.

I wouldnt loosen up my preflop calling/raising range at a loose table. Loosen your postlop calling/raising range might not be a bad idea.

Also make sure that your siting in a good seat, try to have the shortstacks on your left, big stacks on your right, itll make some of your desicions a lot easier

In general, if your the tight player at a table of lags you are going ot turn a profit. Just make sure that when you do hit your hand your betting it and building the pot (or cheking it and letting them build it if you feel that would work better)

But in general you seem to have a good perspective on your situation and im sure that you will make the necesaary adjustments.

man, 16/5 is tight...i think thats way to tight for a 5 max table - Do people stay outta your way when you make a flop bet? You say you don't Cbet but if I see a person playing that tight I know to stay outta the way when they seem to have a hand...In other words I will bet into them all the time, but I have zero intention of getting involved in a big pot with them unless i flop something weird on them that they never see...I think LAG's are tougher to play against - I tend to tighten up on them, but not to the 16/5 level - WOW, thats rocklike at 5 max...I prefer loose and passive tables - I would try to float more on them and let them hang themselves more - It doesn't take too many potsized bets from these guys to get them committed...start to watch what they are showing down - I believe that NL is a postflop game, so work on that - Mix up your betting some to throw them off - Bet a set like you are trying to protect bottom pair - Slowplay a bit and string them along - 1 thing about LAGs (that i really try to avoid) is they overbet a TPGK hand...They think they can steal every pot and then when they get a big pair, they are married...Let em hang themselves -

Also, I thought semi bluffs were more to the point of getting more money in the pot when you have a good draw? Thats why i do it...I think the flush draws where they just keep calling are overly obvious, but when you semi bluff they may read that like you are trying to protect a 1 pair hand...

Izybx is right about the image - Don't worry about your image until you aren't getting action (i wouldn't give you action with your stats, but i try to pay attention) - If you aren't getting action, mix it up a bit -

sorry for confusion. I do CBet, maybe 30-50% of the time OOP and 75% of the time in position.

that sounds like good post flop aggression - Maybe just mix in a few more cards then...Do they let you limp in? if they are playing that many cards, i think you need to get used to the variance and be more willing to stand up to them...Nobody can play 70% of cards and get away with it vs. a good player for long - Stand up a couple times with something like mid pair - i know, its tough that will USUALLY get them to slow down...so i would say limp in when you can, and play your decent hands strongly - If they are playing 60-70% they are bringing a LOT of garbage to the flop...Make them pay when you flop any piece...Check raise them with bottom pair, slow play them with TPGK...hand values go up in 5 max, so i would open up more if i were you and be prepared to fight back...

i play from between 19/10 to 25/15 against your opponents.

Mostly i like to check a lot on the flop to induce bets from worse hands. Also i check to try nd buy the pot on the turn when i have nothing.

Your finding the problem i first had when i moved to lhe6max games and that was as sklansky notes in ToP that players who just hit the bet button have a significant advantage over the player who will just call/check.

My advice would be to reraise a hell of a lot more especially with hands that you want to howdown more.
If this is pr then i get all in a hell of a lot at 5max games there, boss too for that matter where they have 5max.

Yes, good guess.. its pokerrroom crazy laggy vairnce city.. similar to what I hear about tribecca Network. Cheers for the tips peeps Im working on evolving my style / game always, and have got some good ideas so far.

Also, I dont think they punish limpers.

Originally Posted by SinkRox

Yes, good guess.. its pokerrroom crazy laggy vairnce city.. similar to what I hear about tribecca Network. Cheers for the tips peeps Im working on evolving my style / game always, and have got some good ideas so far.

Also, I dont think they punish limpers.

induce them to bet when you have a hand, they never ever recognise the strength of a c/r at either site, especially a c/r all in lololol :P

haha man u need some b 2 b baby.

b2b? why would you say that? tougher tables there.. alot more TAGs. Almost no table selection. Yes, less maniac lags too piss me off.. but im strangely compelled to play against maniac lags

If you're playing against good lags who can fold, just stay out of their way until you have a decent hand in position. Re-raise them preflop and cbet the flop hard. Sometimes re-raise them with 89s and other junk to keep them off balance. Value bet them on the river, check-raise them on the river, fire your 2nd barrells on the turn, checkraise big on the turn, check/fold on the turn.

Mix it up against them whether you have the nuts or pure air. Get a read on them and go with it. If you have a pair + draw, check raise em allin! Don't be afraid to lose a stack but at the same time don't make it obvious that you're semi-bluffing. If you have a draw heavy board and are making a move at it, you should have a real hand more often because they will credit you with draws and put you in. Don't let them mess with you, you mess with THEM. If you lose a stack or two, oh well just learn from your mistakes and quit if you tilt. Don't play through tilt.

Against lagtards who refuse to fold, just sit back and wait for SCs, PPs, and big pocket pairs. You know what to do with those...


The entire time your're playing against a lag, note your hands, think about what you're representing, what he's representing and try to catch your mistakes. Get a history going and put yourself in his place and then try to guess your own hand. You will find a lot of places you should have done something different or made your hand too obvious. There is an art to giving bad action to a good lag.


-EDIT-
**Use your tight image to your advantage if its against a thinking player. Use that image until they catch on and then go back to being tight. Rinse and repeat**

Originally Posted by SinkRox

b2b? why would you say that? tougher tables there.. alot more TAGs. Almost no table selection. Yes, less maniac lags too piss me off.. but im strangely compelled to play against maniac lags

u said it. very few maniac laggs to fuck with you.