Theory

This isn't my bright idea/theory question but figured I'd post it here since it has changed my game a ton (for the better it seems).

Andy (guy from session reviews) linked me to a post by DanBright from 2p2 that suggested smooth-calling with strong hands like AQ and 1010JJ could be more profitable in position than reraising preflop.

So you hold AQ, JJ, 10 10 , 99 or KQs.

2 choices :

1 : smooth-call preflop and raise any c-bet (or almost any... say maybe 75% of time)

2 : reraise preflop and c-bet most hands

What do you like more and why?

I don't love the idea of raising any flop because when you raise the flop that often, you open yourself up to get 3-bet a lot of times by a decent opponent, and if you don't want to get run over, you'll need to make some very marginal all-in calls with crap like middle pair.

Don't get me wrong, I love raising people's c-bets when I flop middle pair or a draw (or a set lol), but this is overdoing it a bit I think.

I'm not gonna worry about game theory like this until I hit 400NL, maybe 200NL. At 100NL the standard reraise goes like this. Everyday guy raises with his obvious AK or AQ. I reraise him and he calls anyway. Flop comes without an A, K, or Q and he checks to me, I bet and he runs.

So what I'm saying is at 100NL I generally get more by reraising them preflop than by hoping they cbet.

I agree with Galapogos for me personally, but at 200 and 400 NL isn't not Reraising JJ/TT in position lowering your reraising range and killing your action on AA-QQ? Or if you were to smooth call JJ/TT you would want to add some junk to your reraising range?

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I agree with Galapogos for me personally, but at 200 and 400 NL isn't not Reraising JJ/TT in position lowering your reraising range and killing your action on AA-QQ? Or if you were to smooth call JJ/TT you would want to add some junk to your reraising range?

This was my initial reaction as well

The premise behind waiting for the flop to get aggressive is this :

-playing in position allows you to make better decisions

-3-betting before the flop allows your opponent to get a maximum % of his/her stack in before you've truly had the chance exploit your position

-typically we'll reraise JJ/1010 since we figure we're ahead of preflop raiser's "range". By doing this we typically win 3-4bb. We get these 3-4bb assuming villain doesn't have a monster (JJ+), which is obviously most of the time. However, if we wait till the flop, when a random raising hand (for someone who's like 20/12) only has a pair about 40% of the time and very rarely has top pair matched or beat, then we're making 3-4bb + c bet (5-6ishbb). And how many times have you seen ppl give advice along the lines of "fold to a flop raise if you can't beat AA".

Our aware oppoenents will adjust, but we'll be doing this in position, so we'll always have an advantage when making tough decisions down the road...

i like to 3bet lots versus exploitably, unthinking opponents who will fold without a hand they think is best. Hence i like to reraise as my reraising range is light compared to many 100nl-400nl players.

isn't not Reraising JJ/TT in position lowering your reraising range and killing your action on AA-QQ?

Also, aren't we getting stacked by bigger over pairs more on small flops?

And what about our own image?
If we're know as lag isn't reraising better?

Originally Posted by drmcboy

isn't not Reraising JJ/TT in position lowering your reraising range and killing your action on AA-QQ?

Also, aren't we getting stacked by bigger over pairs more on small flops?

The hands will just play out differently. It's pretty easy to get away from JJ on a 9-high board against a solid player after they 3-bet you on the flop...

I've been thinking about this a lately too, and not totally sure but here's my thoughts... I lately don't like reraising TT type hands vs "solid" opps because their 3-bet calling range (around TT+, AQ+) lowers the hands value when they call. Like genitruc already wrote, with calling you extract more ways than just taking down the 3-4bb pre flop:
--dominate their 2-betting range
--outplay them in position (raising cbet, controlling pot size better, etc).
I prefer reraising stuff like 22-88, SC (even random stuff on occasion) for balance to QQ+, AK vs these types. However vs donks, I like reraising more just for value/isolation.

in 6 max you are going to be making some bad folds with JJ here because a lot of people are felting worse hands or draws on your 9 high board - needs to be a very effective play to make up for even 15-20% of the time you fold to TT or A9 when their whole stack is in. I'm sure you'll say solid players won't but...

Originally Posted by drmcboy

in 6 max you are going to be making some bad folds with JJ here because a lot of people are felting worse hands or draws on your 9 high board - needs to be a very effective play to make up for even 15-20% of the time you fold to TT or A9 when their whole stack is in. I'm sure you'll say solid players won't but...

This is true vs avg fish but I mentioned vs "solid opponent". A solid will rarely push a hand like A9 overtop of a flop reraise on a dry 9-high board.