Thoughts?

What do you think of my play on this hand? I gave it the old slight hestitation, "thoughtful" bet on the turn. UziRow was a pretty TAggy player, BADBOY did not live up to his name and was min-raising a lot and generally playing like he should have stayed at 25 NL or lower. UziRow's comment cracked me up - possibly the most blatant lie I've ever seen at a poker table (outside of the old standards like "I folded aces" when an ace hits the flop.)

***** Hand History for Game 4550693763 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, June 19, 14:38:29 ET 2006
Table Table 108068 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: fluid_873 ( $25.69 )
Seat 4: UziRow ( $60.80 )
Seat 6: BADBOY759 ( $66.86 )
Seat 2: stressball10 ( $49.70 )
Seat 5: enigma3113 ( $48.13 )
Seat 3: quinatav ( $16 )
enigma3113 posts small blind [$0.25].
BADBOY759 posts big blind [$0.50].
quinatav posts big blind + dead [$0.75].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ 8s Ks ]
fluid_873 calls [$0.50].
stressball10 calls [$0.50].
quinatav checks.
UziRow calls [$0.50].
enigma3113 folds.
BADBOY759 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, As, 5d ]
BADBOY759 checks.
fluid_873 checks.
stressball10 checks.
quinatav checks.
UziRow bets [$2].
BADBOY759 calls [$2].
fluid_873 folds.
stressball10 calls [$2].
quinatav folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
BADBOY759 checks.
stressball10 bets [$3].
UziRow folds.
BADBOY759 calls [$3].
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
UziRow: i love folding a set of deuces
BADBOY759 bets [$15.96].
stressball10 folds.

Fold preflop.

In a relatively passive game with 4 BB in the middle already? No thanks. I'm raising maybe, or limping somewhat more often, with any decent hand.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

In a relatively passive game with 4 BB in the middle already? No thanks. I'm raising maybe, or limping somewhat more often, with any decent hand.

...and K8s meets that requirement how, exactly?

Your difference of opinion has been noted. I don't happen to agree with it, but that's fine.

Originally Posted by Warpe

Originally Posted by dalecooper

In a relatively passive game with 4 BB in the middle already? No thanks. I'm raising maybe, or limping somewhat more often, with any decent hand.

...and K8s meets that requirement how, exactly?

I limp this hand after 1 or more limpers as well and I raise it on the button after 1 limper. My excuse: I play better postflop than my opponents.

Just to answer a question with a question. Why don't you think it's a decent hand? It's alot better than many other hands.

Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher

I limp this hand after 1 or more limpers as well and I raise it on the button after 1 limper. My excuse: I play better postflop than my opponents.

I agree with that point of view. Most lower stakes online players are not great at post-flop play - in particular they tend to either let you draw cheap (the weak players) or bet you out too aggressively (the scared players); and then both types pay off too much when you hit.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher

I limp this hand after 1 or more limpers as well and I raise it on the button after 1 limper. My excuse: I play better postflop than my opponents.

I agree with that point of view. Most lower stakes online players are not great at post-flop play - in particular they tend to either let you draw cheap (the weak players) or bet you out too aggressively (the scared players); and then both types pay off too much when you hit.

So...you're basically playing Kxs like I play Axs. Hmm. I have to think about that one.

Basically yes. The main difference is that I dump the lower kicker hands (K6 and worse) because there are no straight possibilities, and if you do end up playing a pair, you have kicker trouble. I really prefer K8+. In a 6 handed game I'm not worried at all about losing to an ace high flush; it happens once in a blue moon but I'm not sweating it out. I don't even fold the queen-high flush all that often, which is why some suited queens are in my calling range, too. But with queens I like to buttress my speculative call by making sure there are at least some straight possibilities (Q9+).

id have raised preflop on a deliberate steal

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Basically yes. The main difference is that I dump the lower kicker hands (K6 and worse) because there are no straight possibilities, and if you do end up playing a pair, you have kicker trouble. I really prefer K8+. In a 6 handed game I'm not worried at all about losing to an ace high flush; it happens once in a blue moon but I'm not sweating it out. I don't even fold the queen-high flush all that often, which is why some suited queens are in my calling range, too. But with queens I like to buttress my speculative call by making sure there are at least some straight possibilities (Q9+).

I think this is standard. I play it like this too.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

id have raised preflop on a deliberate steal

Fluid and BADBOY were both borderline calling stations, and UziRow was a self-congratulatory solid, aggressive player. I didn't think the situation was ideal for it - was much more inclined to play a multi-way pot and see if I could flop something interesting, and get one of the weaker players to pay it off. I would have raised about any pocket pair or a good high card hand here.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Basically yes. The main difference is that I dump the lower kicker hands (K6 and worse) because there are no straight possibilities, and if you do end up playing a pair, you have kicker trouble.

How does K8 have straight possibilities that K6 doesnt?
How does K8 not have the kicker troubles that K6 has?

I dont see the difference between K8s and K6s.

Originally Posted by arkana

How does K8 have straight possibilities that K6 doesnt?

It doesn't

How does K8 not have the kicker troubles that K6 has?

It beats K6 and K7

I dont see the difference between K8s and K6s.

I do. Do I have to really break everything down in fine, detailed print? OK then - K9 and better have straight possibilities, although I really don't expect to make straights involving both cards unless I'm playing at least a two-gapped hand like KT. I still like to play suited kings without much straight possibility, but I think at times you'll end up with a pair of something - either a pair of kings or a pair to your other card - and it's better if the pair of kings has a better kicker, or the other pair is a higher pair with a king kicker rather than a lower pair with a king kicker. In other words, I'd rather have a pair of eights than a pair of sixes. I'd rather have a pair of kings with an eight kicker than a pair of kings with a six kicker. And I'd rather have two pair, kings and eights, than two pair, kings and sixes, on a finished board that usually will look something like KT863. These are all fine gradations, but they make hands SLIGHTLY easier to play post-flop, and they give you a SLIGHTLY better win percentage at showdown if, like me, you feel compelled to show down some marginal hands against bad players who are often playing worse hands. K8 is my arbitrarily selected cutoff point for playable suited kings in multi-way pots. It's not a written in stone rule, but when you have looser pre-flop standards and like to see a lot of flops, you still have to draw lines somewhere.

Yes K8 is slightly better than K6, it just sounded like you thought there was a big difference between the two and the straight thing made me even more confused.

Make it $1.50 to go preflop if you have good reads on the other players, and are good at your post-flop game.

Out of position I'm betting the flop here to rep an ace.

In position I'm checking if it's checked to me to see a free card.

In position I'm re-raising a bettor to rep an ace, see where I'm at, and have a good chance at a free river card.

GL

I wouldn't limp this PF almost ever, but I'm definitely betting the flop here. If I was in position and it was checked to me I would also bet as well. I'm looking to build a nice pot right now and hit our flush and get paid.