Today's questionable plays

1. Villain is donkish loose and semi-aggressive.


POKERSTARS GAME #6860157204: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/11/01 - 23:12:39 (ET)
Table 'Alkimos IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Renton555 ($310.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Verito ($133.70 in chips)
Seat 4: gAAvin ($201 in chips)
Seat 5: PocketPair03 ($76 in chips)
Seat 6: ahhShark ($424.50 in chips)
gAAvin: posts small blind $1
PocketPair03: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Ac Jh]

ahhShark: folds
Renton555: raises $6 to $8
Verito: calls $8
gAAvin: calls $7
PocketPair03: folds

*** FLOP *** [9s 7s Jd]

gAAvin: checks
Renton555: bets $16
Verito: calls $16
gAAvin: folds

*** TURN *** [9s 7s Jd] [Qd]

Renton555: checks
Verito: bets $44
Renton555: raises $116 to $160



2. Villain is loose and passive.

POKERSTARS GAME #6858352202: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/11/01 - 21:09:44 (ET)
Table 'Irma III' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: bluepentop ($395.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Mlyder ($277.35 in chips)
Seat 4: ayoria ($206.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Renton555 ($342.80 in chips)
Seat 6: ChumpHunter ($186 in chips)
Mlyder: posts small blind $1
ayoria: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Ah Ad]

Renton555: raises $6 to $8
bluepentop said, "clubs"
ChumpHunter: folds
bluepentop: calls $8
Mlyder: folds
ayoria: folds

*** FLOP *** [8d 4c 6c]

Renton555: bets $12
Mlyder said, "bad fold then"
bluepentop: raises $12 to $24
Renton555: calls $12

*** TURN *** [8d 4c 6c] [3s]

Renton555: bets $42
bluepentop: raises $42 to $84
Renton555: calls $42

*** RIVER *** [8d 4c 6c 3s] [9d]

Renton555: checks with unknown intentions (probably calling)

3. Villain is loose and passive with 0% preflop raise. This is probably standard.

POKERSTARS GAME #6857966095: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/11/01 - 20:42:17 (ET)
Table 'Irma III' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: mused01 ($191.05 in chips)
Seat 2: bluepentop ($340.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Mlyder ($283.10 in chips)
Seat 4: ayoria ($261.65 in chips)
Seat 5: Renton555 ($186 in chips)
Seat 6: slavery_lol ($356.05 in chips)
mused01: posts small blind $1
bluepentop: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Jh Ah]

Mlyder: folds
ayoria: folds
Renton555: raises $6 to $8
slavery_lol: folds
mused01: folds
bluepentop: calls $6

*** FLOP *** [4h Jc 3d]

bluepentop: checks
Renton555: bets $12
bluepentop: calls $12

*** TURN *** [4h Jc 3d] [5c]

bluepentop: checks
Renton555: bets $24
bluepentop: raises $24 to $48
Renton555: calls $24

*** RIVER *** [4h Jc 3d 5c] [2c]

bluepentop: bets $118
Renton555: folds



4. Villain is donkey lag.

POKERSTARS GAME #6859824388: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/11/01 - 22:50:13 (ET)
Table 'Urda V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: SFCellman ($332.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Thrasymachus ($310 in chips)
Seat 3: ahhShark ($308.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Renton555 ($203.10 in chips)
Seat 5: danskemann ($202.50 in chips)
Seat 6: 8ivyleague8 ($724.40 in chips)
8ivyleague8: posts small blind $1
SFCellman: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Th Js]

Thrasymachus: folds
ahhShark: folds
Renton555: raises $6 to $8
danskemann: raises $6 to $14
8ivyleague8: folds
SFCellman: folds
Renton555: calls $6

*** FLOP *** [6c Jh 7d]

Renton555: checks
danskemann: bets $18
Renton555: calls $18

*** TURN *** [6c Jh 7d] [9d]

Renton555: bets $34
danskemann: raises $130 to $164
Renton555: folds

Hand 1: No no no! Bet, check call or check fold. This kind of play is spew without a sick read.

Hand 2: I'd fold the turn, as played you're better off betting the river against a passive villain than check calling because he isn't going to bluff usually and he will check behind with all the hands you beat while you still lose the same amount when beat (assuming you're calling any bet). As played either bet the river or check fold.

Hand 3, probably fold the turn. River is interesting, I dunno what beats us besides 67. If I called the turn I think I'd call that river to be honest, but folding the turn is best I think if he is truly passive.

Hand 4: Bleh I'd check the turn I think here, probably check fold, maybe check call. I guess a bet is ok though.

1. spewy but i dont think it's as bad as A5 thinks.
2. anything but bet/call on turn please
3. fold turn against passive, river is meh, kind of hard to put him on a hand without observing more of his play
4. fine

1) I hate it. Are you bluffing?

2) I think you are toast here. I think I'd check that turn and try to get to a cheap showdown. As played, I'd c/f that river unless he bets something ridiculous.

3) It would help to know what he had in the previous hand if it went to showdown. I think I call river, although it's close.

4) Pf sucks. I'd rather 4-bet than call here, but it depends on how often he has been making these stupid min-raises and how he plays postflop. As played I'd check that turn. There's a pretty good chance you have the best hand plus at most 9 outs if behind.

Just a general point. It seems you like to lead the turn after getting raised on the flop when first to act. Doing this with hands like top pair and overpairs is fine, but just make sure you are doing it with big hands too, because it is very exploitable by a good player if you only do it with marginal hands that you will fold to a raise.

everyone please note the stack size in hand one (idk if this makes it any better, but you guys sound as if you think my c/r is in order to stack off for 100bb)

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

4) Pf sucks. I'd rather 4-bet than call here,

Im confused. Why would i fourbet a donkey with a drawing hand when he's clearly given me wonderful implied odds to crack him the times he has strength?

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Just a general point. It seems you like to lead the turn after getting raised on the flop when first to act. Doing this with hands like top pair and overpairs is fine, but just make sure you are doing it with big hands too, because it is very exploitable by a good player if you only do it with marginal hands that you will fold to a raise.

I don't make blocking bets against strong players nearly as much as weak ones. And also, as you said, I do often make turn block bets with hands I don't intend to fold (example the first AA hand, that turn bet wasn't so I would fold 100% of the time to a raise.)

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

4) Pf sucks. I'd rather 4-bet than call here,

Im confused. Why would i fourbet a donkey with a drawing hand when he's clearly given me wonderful implied odds to crack him the times he has strength?

Like I said, it depends on how likely he is to fold to a 4-bet, and his tendencies postflop (ie will he let you get to showdown cheaply if you flop a pair?) And how often are you going to make a hand strong enough to "crack him" with JTo playing oop? Given stack sizes, your implied odds aren't very good with a hand like JTo, and this is assuming he has a big hand to begin with. Lots of times he's not going to be very strong here, and you're just putting money in his pocket when you c/f the flop.

but its incorrect to fold to the threebet, wouldn't you say? And if he calls light, a fourbet sucks as well (and as he is a donkey, he probably does indeed call lightly, right?)

Originally Posted by Renton

but its incorrect to fold to the threebet, wouldn't you say? And if he calls light, a fourbet sucks as well (and as he is a donkey, he probably does indeed call lightly, right?)

I don't think it's incorrect to fold to the 3-bet. Pot odds isn't everything. You really have to worry about reverse implied-odds with a hand like JTo oop (you made a marginal tpmk and lost 34 BB's in the process). And yeah I do agree that 4-betting most likely sucks; I was just throwing it out there because I have seen some donkeys who minraise and nearly always fold to a reraise.

ok

to compromise both of our concerns, isn't it indeed correct to call the threebet just to look for two pair or trips or a big draw, but don't put any money in after the flop with anything less?

Why are you building a pot on hand 2 when you are ahead very little? Check/call turn and river IMO.

Betting the turn on hand 2 is a terrible failure to exploit our opponent's losing ways.

Loose/passives generally don't bet their best hands hard enough and spew out lots of information about their hand strength via bet sizes. I would look at a turn bet while pulling up his PokerTracker history for every hand he's shown down in a medium or bigger pot.

i check turn sometimes in hand 3

Originally Posted by gabe

i check turn sometimes in hand 3

With that read I like betting out and folding to the raise.

i think both have their upsides thats why i said sometimes...if this was a fish i had been running over in the session then id more likely to check turn and bet river, if we havent tangled much i would usually bet turn