Top trips OOP

Normal Table No Limit 0.10/0.20
Seat: 1 deaders
Seat: 2 phantom69
Seat: 3 IshakG (Dealer) $18.90
Seat: 4 XMAN64 $20-ish
Seat: 5 missflamb
Seat: 6 jailhousejoe $23.30 :Th: :Ts:

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OpeningBetRound
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XMAN64 : Posts small blind 0.10
missflamb : Posts big blind 0.20
deaders : Sits down 0.01
jailhousejoe : Raises for 0.60
phantom69 : Folds
IshakG : Raises for 1.00
XMAN64 : Calls for 0.90
missflamb : Folds
jailhousejoe : Calls for 0.40
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Flop :Td:
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XMAN64 : Checks
jailhousejoe : Bets 2.00
IshakG : Raises for 4.00
XMAN64 : Calls for 4.00
jailhousejoe : ???

I put the pre-flop raiser on an overpair to the board, and the caller on a decent draw. How do I get all the $$$ in the middle, disguise my hand, and not give good draws a chance? btw I think OOP is a big leak in my game and I felt I played it awfully from here imo.

ALL IN. If you push the overpair will call, and the other will likely fold. Even if he doesn't, you're still a heavy favorite.

You've got three different and somewhat opposing goals. Forget about disguising your hand. Forget about getting all their money in the middle. With a flush draw on the board you need to take it down NOW. I'd re-raise to $12 or go all-in. Any flush draw should fold, and if you're up against overpairs hoping to hit a set you're ahead, so make them pay dearly for the priviledge.

While I agree with the end result, I don't like how Warpe got there.

Originally Posted by Fnord

While I agree with the end result, I don't like how Warpe got there.

Too strident? Sorry. I like to say what I think. Comes across as brash sometimes.

I am getting a certification in Fnordspeak, so I will try to translate:

You don't want flush draws/OESD to fold here. You want them to call w./out odds. So "take it down now" is not the correct thought processs, even if it does result in the correct play.

What could these guys be holding:

a) junk (it IS 6 max after all) - they will fold to a big raise
b) big overcards - they will probably fold unless they are sure you are bluffing
c) Pair (Ts or worse) - AT probably goes to the mat... KT... not so much you want to keep your raise small to keep these guys in .
d) big draw - you want to kill their odds, but keep them in.

Pot is $13 and change. I think putting in another $8-12 is good. More if you think they are likely to call an overbet with a mediocre hand rather than muck it like a good lil' tag.

Originally Posted by zenbitz

I am getting a certification in Fnordspeak, so I will try to translate:

lol...Is there a course I can take? I read EVERY Fnord post I come across, but I don't think I've completed the pre-requisites for understanding all of them. LOVE the Shania thread.

Okay, so you want a flush or OESD draw to call...if they hit, that's poker, but basically the odds are against it so gimme all your chips boys 'cause I'll take that bet any day of the week...Okay. New synapses now installed and running.

How I get there:
It's a draw heavy board just ripe for a semi-bluff. Many players know this and are digging for an excuse to call with one pair, so you may as well comply. Neither player really looks like they want to fold here. Plus, you just might push here with a big draw, so Shania thinks it's sexy. Pot is big enough to be worth winning un-contested but you really want all the money in and to induce a really terrible call against your nuts. All-in is the best way to do this.

Originally Posted by Fnord

How I get there:

Thanks for the clarification, Fnord. That is the element most often missing in your famously cryptic posts, but I'm starting to catch on, I think. Answering the same noob questions over and over again is probably a pain, so I appreciate the effort. And Shania is Canadian, after all...

OHGODDAMNYOUGUYS. Now I really am going to have to search for "Shania" on FTR. Tried on google with predictable results.

Originally Posted by zenbitz

OHGODDAMNYOUGUYS. Now I really am going to have to search for "Shania" on FTR. Tried on google with predictable results.

You might get better results if you searched on the boob+boob forums.

Just make a big reraise. If Q-J or a flush draw still calls, you have redraws even if he hits. At this level, I'd expect the player with the overpair to just go all-in anyways, eliminating the drawing player, unless he's terrible.

I'd rather check-raise the flop. This allows you to potentially trap the other player for a bet on the flop before you and the other player raise him out of the pot.

If you want to represent an all-in semi-bluff as Fnord suggests, I think check-raising all-in is probably better than open betting all-in, since your check will induce a bet from A-K when he couldn't have called an all-in bet, and also you again allow the other player a chance to get trapped for a bet on the flop.

Nice replies thanks. It seems the consensus is a big re-raise or all-in on the flop would have induced a call from the overpair anyway. The worry I had was that the bet/reraise was too strong and would have allowed QQ (as it turned out) to fold. Would no-one fold QQ to my all-in here? I also thought of check-raising, but if you notice Im second to act and am relying on the guy on the button to make a stab at it otherwise Im kicking myself if I give a free card.

I wont post hands Im proud of here, as I like the brash but good natured advice which slaps Shania on the wrist and tells her shes been a bad girl. So if youll excuse me this forum is essentially my toilet and I will now explain the thinking behind what I actually did after the min-reraise. I decided to simply 'call' with my nuts. The guy who I put on the draw is OOP so I wasnt worried about losing too much money to him. I was planning to check-raise the turn and hope the guy on the button with QQ takes control of the pot, the SB calls, then I go all-in.

Only I didnt stick with the plan . The turn was kind enough and I bottled it worried I might give a free river card as well should I not bet. After a $7 bet on the turn from me, thank goodness the button went all-in and I could call his QQ.

Assuming I stuck with the original plan tho would this be entirely awful play?

Didnt read any replies before answering, so here is what I think. PF min-raise is AA/KK and XMAN most likely has a draw, something like KdQd. I push all in here because if you just raise the drawer will be getting way too good odds to call if he is drawing to 9 outs. at 12 outs he will call you anyways so I push and expect them both to call.

Originally Posted by dsaxton

I'd rather check-raise the flop. This allows you to potentially trap the other player for a bet on the flop before you and the other player raise him out of the pot.

There is no reason not to bet into obvious overpair when board is this heavy. He would have to be really bad not to raise with this kind of board. This also makes a nice sandwitch play if the other guy calls. after going AI the set is pretty obvious but he will still call. well another overpair might make the same play but that would be pretty horrible play IMO.

push, the top two pair will call, which im assuming is the min raiser, the cold caller will get bad odds for his flush draw. hope both call.

omg
(post whore!)
PUSH

Iowa are you saying he also minraised with T9 PF??