TT in 3b pots oop 400nl -- I'm dumb.

I feel really stupid in these types of spots. Both of these came up in the same session today and I really have just about zero idea what to do. Villain in first hand is Mused on stars, he's definitely a bit on the tighter side and tends to have it quite often when his money goes in, though he is definitely 3betting light in this spot, his overall 3bet was 6% so I'd assume it's a bit looser on the button.

In 2nd hand, villain is Kysus, very aggressive player who earlier in the session made a move in a spot that many players would not ever think to make a move there which ended up actually making me have a ton of respect for his game since I rarely see players capable of c/r bluffs in multiway pots over two players on boards that are very difficult for anyone to continue w/out 2pr+. Either way, I know he's super light here.

I really have no idea what to do in these spots, I feel stupid calling, I feel spewy 4betting pre since we haven't yet developed enough of a dynamic to get it in profitably, and I feel like when I do get it in on the flop in either of these spots I'm either crushed or flipping a ton. What do you guys think???

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($929.80)
Hero (CO) ($404)
Button ($1017.45)
SB ($487)
BB ($545.90)
UTG ($400.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
2 folds, Hero bets $12, Button raises $36, 2 folds, Hero calls $24

Flop: ($78) 8, 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $40, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($158) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($158) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $112

Total pot: $158

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($425.40)
Button ($754)
SB ($313)
BB ($1565.30)
UTG ($394)
MP ($400)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
2 folds, Hero bets $12, Button raises $40, 2 folds, Hero calls $28

Flop: ($86) 9, 6, Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $31, Hero calls $31

Turn: ($148) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $92, Hero calls $92

River: ($332) K (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $591 (All-In)

Total pot: $332

1) I would say this is fine, I'd fold the river.

2) I thought his sizing was weird at first but you only have 100bb so fold is good. I'd likely fold turn actually.

Yeah but the question is ... like, what kind of strategy do you use in this spot? Do you not just feel like really dumb when you call preflop, then check call the flop like you're just getting owned?

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Yeah but the question is ... like, what kind of strategy do you use in this spot? Do you not just feel like really dumb when you call preflop, then check call the flop like you're just getting owned?

yes i feel like this every day. glad to hear its not just me. i feel extremely lame using the strat: oh ill call pre, c/c flop and probably c/f turn. like why not just fold pre? vs any aggro villain i don't see how that line could be profitable, even though i probably do it all the time.

1. def fold vs mused. he probably checks back his big clubs on the turn quite often whether they are in overpairs or high card hands.

2. 4bet/calling pre seems fine here. As played I dont think calling this down is too bad of a spew vs him but i could be wrong--I'm not really sure if his shoving range is every better hand than yours or Qx+

Would it be horrid to 4 bet to, maybe 105-110, and fold to a 5 bet/shove?

I'm also hating this type of hand. Might as well fold pre, as I feel it's burning money when I play it similar. Especially OOP.

I've been adding in a bit of 4 bets (in this situation, with this type of hand)and it seems to be easier and really defines their hands too, usually. Obv I can fold to a shove. But with some notes on villian, I can get QQ,JJ,AK,AQ to often fold the better hand pre, or post depending on board texture.

Just an experiment as I toy with this game. And I've never played 400nl, so unsure of the game dynamic differences.

Originally Posted by jjbish

Would it be horrid to 4 bet to, maybe 105-110, and fold to a 5 bet/shove?

TT is way too good of a hand to turn into a 4-bet bluff. If you're going to 4-bet it, it should be to call a 5-bet.

Hand 2 vs Kysus specifically there is no doubt id call down and feel like its the best line. He has a high bluffing frequency in his threebarrelling in threebet pots. I dont think he shoves AK or AA without at least tanking either.

Hand 1: I'd def fold here against most everyone, him for sure as well. It may be more +EV to c/r the flop here rather than call, even though I think both decisions suck.