two two pair hands

ok, these two hands are bugging me, not sure what i'd do if i ran across them again.

no real read on this guy, if anything a little loose.

***** Hand History for Game 2964541675 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 01, 15:00:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 66781 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: paliza ( $54.72 )
Seat 2: gohuex2 ( $40.91 )
Seat 4: dtrub ( $61.92 )
Seat 5: Razr_Fish ( $137.91 )
Seat 6: imontilt28 ( $53.25 )
Seat 3: Wahoo2006 ( $74.75 )
dtrub posts small blind [$0.25].
Razr_Fish posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Wahoo2006 [ Ts Ks ]
imontilt28 folds.
paliza calls [$0.50].
gohuex2 folds.
Wahoo2006 raises [$2].
dtrub folds.
Razr_Fish calls [$1.50].
paliza calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, Qd, Kd ]
Razr_Fish bets [$1].
paliza calls [$1].
Wahoo2006 raises [$5].
Razr_Fish folds.
paliza calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
paliza checks.
Wahoo2006 bets [$10].
paliza is all-In [$47.72]
Wahoo2006 ?


This guy has seemed pretty tame so far, no big moves or anything.

***** Hand History for Game 2964206781 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 01, 13:20:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 65592 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: justduet ( $122.92 )
Seat 3: erikrbaker ( $41.67 )
Seat 4: aaa101 ( $57.55 )
Seat 5: Wahoo2006 ( $409.22 )
Seat 6: Chubby_Bunny ( $43.15 )
Seat 2: E_Z_DOLLAR ( $10 )
aaa101 posts small blind [$0.25].
Wahoo2006 posts big blind [$0.50].
E_Z_DOLLAR posts big blind + dead [$0.75].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Wahoo2006 [ 9d Js ]
Chubby_Bunny folds.
E_Z_DOLLAR checks.
erikrbaker folds.
aaa101 calls [$0.25].
Wahoo2006 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 9s, 3h ]
aaa101 checks.
Wahoo2006 bets [$1].
E_Z_DOLLAR calls [$1].
aaa101 raises [$2].
Wahoo2006 raises [$4].
E_Z_DOLLAR folds.
aaa101 raises [$6].
Wahoo2006 calls [$3].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
aaa101 bets [$20].
Wahoo2006 ?

First hand: he's an idiot with AJ or a decent player with 66. Either way I think that's a fold. Second hand: not sure. It's hard to imagine him re-re-raising with a hand that the 8 would help (i.e. a straight draw). He's either ahead of you already, or still behind you on the turn. I wonder if he had AJ or KJ. Might just put him all in on the turn.

edit: one thing I didn't notice is that he check-raised on that hand. I would put him on two pair (obviously the same two pair or a worse two pair) and get all his money in the pot.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

First hand: he's an idiot with AJ or a decent player with 66. Either way I think that's a fold.

Agreed. Or an idiot with KQ. Well actually, 66 isn't that great a player either. He's way overbetting when the straight becomes possible - lets off a lot of inferior hands. Bad idea to slowplay on broadway boards.

Second hand is a fold. He could be overplaying TPTK, but I fold here. He just reraised a bet a call and a raise. At best you're splitting, at worst you're all sorts of fucked up. No big moves in the past from him? Fold and move on.

Guys like us find EV in making easy decisions. No need to put your stack up against a real display of strength in either hand. I am not saying be weak-tight, but its best to be the one making the bets and raises - playing defense just isn't any fun.

Hand 2: It's a blind war, I don't see how we're unhappy getting it all in on the flop with top 2.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 2: It's a blind war, I don't see how we're unhappy getting it all in on the flop with top 2.

I don't see blind wars anywhere I play NL at. But now that you mention it, he was a blind which makes lower 2pair possible. I am confused now.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

I don't see blind wars anywhere I play NL at. But now that you mention it, he was a blind which makes lower 2pair possible. I am confused now.

A whole lot of hands are possible. The important part is that there is a lower chance he has a pair in the hole. I really want all the money in on the flop here. I would re-raise big and take it from there. Maybe then I would consider laying it down. No way I want to play a turn here.

I'm with Fnord, I like continual raises on the flop until he stops re-raising or all the money goes in. There's not many hands he would probably have that are ahead of you on that flop. J3 and 93 are possible, especially if they were soooooted. I'm usually paying off 33.

he is probably a noob that limped with K J or maybe slow playing a big pair

ok, I like the advice you guys gave, I think in the future I am folding hand one and reraising hand 2 on the flop, that would make the turn much easier.

Hand 1 i called and he had J9. This hand bothers me because I could see a worse 2 pair here a lot and WTF is he doing calling the flop with J9, but i should've been smarter than this and folded it.

Hand 2 i folded, no idea what he had. I'm still not sure what I'm doing if somehow I do see a turn on hand 2, but i think if i could do this again i'd put him all in even on the turn and just hope to see a worse 2 pair.

Sudden aggression from otherwise passive players is almost always a sign of strength, hand #1 seems like a fold. not that seeing the results makes it any harder .

#2 since he is in the blinds as well there is a good chance he is CR'ing you with lower 2 pair. I would re-raise him on the flop pretty big here. If you decide to just call on the flop I will put him AI on turn given his smallish stack.

J9 doesn't surprise me - it's the same hand as AJ basically, and passive idjits call with those kind of draws all the time. For some reason the higher the cards, the more they like those gutshots.

Hand 1 is a fold IMO. His EP limp could easily be KQ or KJ. You're ahead of KJ but he does have a lot of outs on fifth street. KQ has us beat and practically drawing dead. I'd fold without much hesitation.

Hand 2 is an easy call IMO. He probably has a lower two pair. If he had position the reraise could've indicated QT and he hoping for a free card by raising. However he is out of position, so that wouldn't make any sense. Trips is unlikely. A smaller two pair is most likely, so in that case I'd get it all in.

i dont really like playing K 10 suited and getting too exited when you flop top pair