WCOOP Main Event!

Wow, this thing is going to reach 5 million bucks,

do you see why?

No, I don't see why. Probably will reach a little under 4 Million. It's still pretty awesome that the winner of an online tounrey will walk away with almost $1,000,000 though.

Damn i really thoguht there would be more last minute entrants but still 3.7 mill is a ton of money

so this is it, no more wcoop after tonight? I thought there was gonna be like 20 something events... no?

Originally Posted by sndp

so this is it, no more wcoop after tonight? I thought there was gonna be like 20 something events... no?

Nope, only 15.

Michael busted already.

Originally Posted by sndp

so this is it, no more wcoop after tonight? I thought there was gonna be like 20 something events... no?

There were 15 events. They've been having 1 every day since September 4th.

Muxy, that avatar is killing me. It is one of my all-time favorite Saturday Night Live skits.

which ftr's are in this, and what are there names?

I believe i'm the only FTR left, names the same baby

as far as i know, only radashack is still in, he is sitting at 10k chips as i write this (i'm watching him play )

Gone. About 120 out of the money. Awesome effort rada

Did any FTR do anything at all during the wcoop? Is demi the only person that monied?

lool, the guy who turned down the deal at the final 5, busted out in 5th, GG 200k when you coulda made 428k or whatever

greed got the best of him

Originally Posted by jmontis

lool, the guy who turned down the deal at the final 5, busted out in 5th, GG 200k when you coulda made 428k or whatever

greed got the best of him

Or he thought his equity in the situation was worth more?

For some people 200k isn't a lot of money. Just because it's more then you make doesn't mean it's anything to him. Think about the situation.

and its all over.. panella86 takes the bracelet

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=19382

Here's my awesome experience in the WCOOP main event:

*********** # 12 **************
PokerStars Game #2606449745: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level I
(10/20) - 2005/09/18 - 16:52:22 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (5210 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (4710 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (5380 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (4940 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4340 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (5660 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4980 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4780 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (10010 in chips)
pbtoau: posts small blind 10
michael1123: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [9h 6h]
Striker 10: folds
whatevva: folds
maq2000: folds
CT Kid: folds
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
SSSSORRY: raises 40 to 60
pbtoau: calls 50
michael1123: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [8c 9c Tc]
pbtoau: checks
michael1123: checks
SSSSORRY: bets 100
pbtoau: folds
michael1123: calls 100
*** TURN *** [8c 9c Tc] [9s]
michael1123: checks
SSSSORRY: bets 400
michael1123: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [8c 9c Tc 9s] [4h]
michael1123: checks
SSSSORRY: bets 400
michael1123: calls 400
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SSSSORRY: shows [9d Ac] (three of a kind, Nines)
michael1123: shows [9h 6h] (three of a kind, Nines - lower kicker)
SSSSORRY collected 1980 from pot

- Barely avoided losing a lot more by not raising the turn or river.

*********** # 15 **************
PokerStars Game #2606471426: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level I
(10/20) - 2005/09/18 - 16:55:32 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (5210 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (4710 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (5380 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (5960 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4310 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (4760 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4910 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4760 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (10010 in chips)
whatevva: posts small blind 10
maq2000: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [Qc Td]
CT Kid: folds
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
SSSSORRY: calls 20
pbtoau: calls 20
michael1123: calls 20
Striker 10: folds
whatevva: calls 10
maq2000: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s Tc Th]
whatevva: checks
maq2000: checks
SSSSORRY: checks
pbtoau: checks
michael1123: checks
*** TURN *** [3s Tc Th] [7d]
whatevva: bets 200
maq2000: folds
SSSSORRY: folds
pbtoau: folds
michael1123: raises 400 to 600
whatevva: raises 800 to 1400
michael1123: calls 800
*** RIVER *** [3s Tc Th 7d] [5h]
whatevva: bets 560
michael1123 said, "I really really should raise this one, but oh well"
michael1123: calls 560
*** SHOW DOWN ***
whatevva: shows [Ts Qh] (three of a kind, Tens)
michael1123: shows [Qc Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
whatevva collected 2010 from pot
michael1123 collected 2010 from pot

*********** # 24 **************
PokerStars Game #2606523287: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level I
(10/20) - 2005/09/18 - 17:02:56 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (5230 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (4630 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (5350 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (6110 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4290 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (4700 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4850 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4970 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (9880 in chips)
whatevva: posts small blind 10
maq2000: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [Jc Jd]
CT Kid: calls 20
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
maq2000 said, "nah. i didn't want to lose on the river and trying to figure why
you went all in"
SSSSORRY: calls 20
pbtoau: folds
babyjess28 [observer] said, "comes 2-6-8 two clubs i have 7-8 clubs turn 7 he
has 9-10 after he ch raises me i move in he thinks for 40 seconds and calls"
michael1123: raises 80 to 100
Striker 10: folds
whatevva: folds
maq2000: raises 300 to 400
CT Kid: folds
SSSSORRY: folds
michael1123: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [9s 4d 3h]
maq2000: bets 1200
michael1123 said, "JJ"
michael1123: folds
maq2000 collected 850 from pot

- folded this immediately on the flop. Knew he had AA, KK, or QQ.

*********** # 37 **************
PokerStars Game #2606608768: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level I
(10/20) - 2005/09/18 - 17:14:56 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (3785 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (9175 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (5470 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (6350 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4200 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (4160 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4630 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4690 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (7550 in chips)
swedenyes: posts small blind 10
SSSSORRY: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [7d 7s]
pbtoau: folds
michael1123: raises 40 to 60
Striker 10: folds
maq2000 said, "figured a hand like that would come about"
ChimRicholds said, "sorry bout that whammy"
whatevva: folds
maq2000: folds
CT Kid: calls 60
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
SSSSORRY: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [5c 3s 6s]
SSSSORRY: checks
michael1123: bets 120
CT Kid: calls 120
SSSSORRY: folds
*** TURN *** [5c 3s 6s] [9c]
michael1123: bets 320
CT Kid: calls 320
*** RIVER *** [5c 3s 6s 9c] [7h]
michael1123: checks
CT Kid: bets 850
michael1123: calls 850
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CT Kid: shows [8s Ts] (a straight, Six to Ten)
michael1123: shows [7d 7s] (three of a kind, Sevens)
michael1123 said, "so sick"
CT Kid collected 2770 from pot

Very next hand ...

*********** # 38 **************
PokerStars Game #2606617067: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level II
(15/30) - 2005/09/18 - 17:16:06 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (5205 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (9175 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (5460 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (6290 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4200 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (2810 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4630 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4690 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (7550 in chips)
SSSSORRY: posts small blind 15
pbtoau: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [Jc Jd]
michael1123: raises 60 to 90
michael1123 said, "I know you're on the flush draw, so I won't pay that off"
Striker 10: folds
whatevva: folds
maq2000: folds
CT Kid: folds
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: calls 90
SSSSORRY: calls 75
pbtoau: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qs Jh 7d]
michael1123 said, "yet you get the running straight with the 2 outer that gives
me a set"
SSSSORRY: checks
michael1123: bets 150
swedenyes: raises 300 to 450
SSSSORRY: folds
michael1123: calls 300
*** TURN *** [Qs Jh 7d] [6c]
michael1123: checks
swedenyes: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs Jh 7d 6c] [8d]
michael1123: checks
swedenyes: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
michael1123: shows [Jc Jd] (three of a kind, Jacks)
swedenyes: mucks hand
michael1123 collected 1200 from pot
Seat 3: swedenyes (button) mucked [Qc Ad]

... I can't believe he checked the turn AND the river. Should've bet the river myself, but I was 95% sure he would bet it, as how could he expect me to check a hand better than TPTK to him twice?! A good player would've felt safe on the river, and bet it for value ... ah well.

... Two hands later ...

*********** # 40 **************
PokerStars Game #2606631103: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level II
(15/30) - 2005/09/18 - 17:18:03 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: CT Kid (5205 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (9175 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (4920 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (6200 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (4155 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (3440 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4630 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (4735 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (7550 in chips)
michael1123: posts small blind 15
Striker 10: posts big blind 30
michael1123 said, "nice checks my friend"
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [Ks Th]
whatevva: folds
maq2000: raises 60 to 90
CT Kid: folds
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
SSSSORRY: calls 90
pbtoau: calls 90
michael1123: calls 75
Striker 10: folds
*** FLOP *** [As Qh Ad]
michael1123: checks
maq2000: checks
swedenyes said, "tyty"
SSSSORRY: checks
pbtoau: checks
*** TURN *** [As Qh Ad] [4d]
michael1123: checks
maq2000: checks
SSSSORRY: checks
michael1123 said, "thought I'd at least get a river bet"
pbtoau: checks
*** RIVER *** [As Qh Ad 4d] [Jd]
michael1123: bets 250
maq2000: folds
SSSSORRY: raises 770 to 1020
pbtoau: folds
michael1123 said, "hahaha, god this is so sick"
michael1123 said, "I've had more monsters in this 30 minutes then ever, and they're all beaten"
michael1123 said, "KT for a straight"
michael1123: folds
SSSSORRY collected 890 from pot
SSSSORRY: doesn't show hand

... Clearly he had a boat or a flush ... sigh.

Little while later ...

*********** # 82 **************
PokerStars Game #2606951794: Tournament #10017961, Hold'em No Limit - Level III
(25/50) - 2005/09/18 - 18:01:58 (ET)
Table '10017961 191' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: steelballs1 (6480 in chips)
Seat 2: ChimRicholds (10180 in chips)
Seat 3: swedenyes (4620 in chips)
Seat 4: SSSSORRY (5600 in chips)
Seat 5: pbtoau (3320 in chips)
Seat 6: michael1123 (3390 in chips)
Seat 7: Striker 10 (4820 in chips)
Seat 8: whatevva (5765 in chips)
Seat 9: maq2000 (15210 in chips)
SSSSORRY: posts small blind 25
pbtoau: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [Ts Td]
michael1123: raises 100 to 150
Striker 10: folds
whatevva has timed out
whatevva: folds
whatevva is sitting out
maq2000: calls 150
steelballs1: folds
ChimRicholds: folds
swedenyes: folds
whatevva has returned
SSSSORRY: folds
pbtoau: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [4d 5c 3c]
pbtoau: checks
michael1123: bets 300
maq2000: raises 600 to 900
pbtoau: folds
michael1123: raises 2340 to 3240 and is all-in
maq2000: calls 2340
*** TURN *** [4d 5c 3c] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [4d 5c 3c 2c] [Qh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
michael1123: shows [Ts Td] (a pair of Tens)
maq2000: shows [5s 5d] (three of a kind, Fives)
maq2000 collected 6955 from pot

Wee ... what a sick tournament. I've never had the deck so apparently rigged against me.

Look on the bright side michael... pinella86 is going to have his ego get the best of him... he's going to start playing cash games.... and it'll be like you winning the main event piece by piece.

BTW, sometimes you are too good. Are you sure the person had AA KK or QQ? Or are you just overthinking? If so, then why did you push on that guy with 10-10? Didn't think he was holding a set?

I was watching a few of them play, I could tell he was probably a little annoyed by the previous hands, and he happened to guess wrong on the TTs

and ya i read in an old interview that Panella dumped at least 30k playing 30-60 limit, who knows

Originally Posted by bencathers

BTW, sometimes you are too good. Are you sure the person had AA KK or QQ? Or are you just overthinking? If so, then why did you push on that guy with 10-10? Didn't think he was holding a set?

It was a completely different scenario, the only similarity is me having an overpair. Yes, I'm sure he had AA-QQ, with only hand I could possibly beat being TT, and that's like a 5% chance at best as its pretty unlikely he'd play TT like that. I'm not going to call off all of my chips when I think its that likely that I'm beat.

In hand #24, there's an UTG limper and another limp, and I do my standard 3xBB raise + 1BB for every limper in front of me, making it 100. There's an UTG limper and a big raise, making it a very scary situation, and yet this guy makes it 400. He should already know that I have a big pocket pair, and yet he's raising me and probably hoping to get all of the money in preflop.

Immediately I figure he probably has a higher pocket pair (with AK being a possibility, but not as likely as AK would probably often just call here), but its worth calling to hopefully flop a set and take his stack. Rag flop, and he immediately bets about the size of the pot. Immediately I can rule out AK, and it makes it a rather easy fold.

Extremely different from the last hand. The big differences:

#1 I have a smaller stack, 72% of what it was when I folded the JJ.

#2 The blinds have risen from 10/20 to 25/50, which is two blind levels later. So while I had a stack of 235xBB with the JJ, I now had a stack of 68xBB. That's 1/3.5 of what it was, massive massive difference.

#3 The entire preflop betting structure is different. An UTG limper, another limper, a big raise, and then a massive raise on the first hand, clearly showing 2 big hands. In the second, I raise preflop and am just called, and not raised.

#4 Maq's stack has almost doubled from the JJ hand to the TT hand, meaning he's more likely to be more aggressive and take more chances.

#5 Maq had been raising a lot of bets on the flop recently.

Considering all these things, I thought Maq had AA-QQ on the first hand. On the second, I thought he could have a set of course (although I kind of thought he'd likely wait until the turn to raise that if he did), but also thought he could very easily have 99-66, or even 22 which would give him an open ended straight draw as well as his pocket pair, which could already beat me if I have overs. There's two clubs on the flop as well, also making it very possible that he had a flush draw. Not only did I think it was likely that I had the best hand, but by how much he had already bet, I thought that he'd call my all in with practically every worse hand he could have.

In a non-mathmatical way, I estimated my chance of having the best hand on the first hand to be about 10%, making it an easy as hell laydown for me. On the second hand, I estimated I had about a 80% chance of having the best hand, and that he was commited to the pot, so I went all in.

I was wrong on the second hand, but my style of play is not to keep folding until I have the nuts. I'd never win a tournament that way. I figured I likely had the best hand, and took the chance to hopefully double up.

Aww, that was a damn insightful post that I think could be helpful to a lot of people to possibly notice more differences in hands, and also help them make better laydowns in some spots.

And yet no replies ... did the length of the post scare you guys off?

I read this and was impressed by the logic. This kind of perception is generally a very undervalued skill by the general player.

Collaborative minds for a thinking game = +EV.

<3345.

#12: Once you hit your set on the turn, facing a raise, why do you not reraise? Scared of kicker, scared of straight, or did you plan to raise the river? Knowing me, I would have been tempted to lose a lot more money with the weak kicker in that situation. You were smart to not lose more chips.

#15: What prompted you not to raise that on the river? Is it because you doubt your opponent will lay down his hand and you might be outkicked?

#24: Good laydown with that hand, I don't know if I could have done the same. But after reading your thoughts on the hand, I defintely think you made the right decision.

#37: I like limping small PPs in EP to limp to set, why raise in EP when you have such a good chance of running into a reraiser and most likely a tough decision post-flop if you get any cards higher than 7? After you made your set on the river, what were your motives on the check / call if you were scared of the straight why call the river bet?

#38: After checking the river, did you put your opponent on a hand like KQ or AQ, or were you sure he would take a stab at the pot where you would come over the top of him?

#40: Nice laydown.

#82: Unlcuky...

Michael, I have a lot of respect for you with the tournaments you have won online, and with how well you did in the WSOP 2005 main event. I'm not criticizing your play, I just wanted to see what you were thinking in these hands. One of the weakest parts of my game is analyzing every hand and thinking things through before I do them, so any insight would be helpful. Very, very unlucky tourney, however. You were dealt some nice cards, made some good laydowns, and played your hands fine, but just ran into some bad luck...

Wee, this is a fun post, ahsoccer. Excellent questions.

Originally Posted by ahssoccer23

#12: Once you hit your set on the turn, facing a raise, why do you not reraise? Scared of kicker, scared of straight, or did you plan to raise the river? Knowing me, I would have been tempted to lose a lot more money with the weak kicker in that situation. You were smart to not lose more chips.

I basically planned on check raising the turn or river, but he also surprised me with his turn bet. Not only did he show no fear of the 9, where a lot of good players would check there with a hand like AT, but he actually increased his bet size a good deal. I had a feeling that he may have me beat with the jump in bet size, and that he was scared of losing to a straight or a flush draw. On the river he then bet small, exactly what he bet on the turn into a much bigger pot, and then it seemed like he was begging for action. I certainly thought about raising, but I just sensed some big strength from his play, and with the deep stacks and my weak kicker, I decided to just play it safe.

#15: What prompted you not to raise that on the river? Is it because you doubt your opponent will lay down his hand and you might be outkicked?

Kind of similar to the last hand, but this time it was extremely obvious that he had trips as well, although I did have a good kicker this time. He bet the turn, and then rereraised me on the turn, so clearly he had a T, but honestly I felt like I likely had him outkicked here, as he was in the SB preflop. Still, I just decided it wasn't worth the risk. It was very obvious I had a T as well, and if he had a low Q he'd probably be able to lay it down if I raised him big on the river, and if he had a bigger Q or a boat I'd be fucked, as he wouldn't lay it down. Its just one of those hands where I think I have the best hand but I'll just call on the river to be safe plays, and again, the deep stacks are a large part of that. I would've been more than willing to get all in at the flop, but by the river there's more chances that he's filled up with the junk he's likely to complete from the SB, etc.

#24: Good laydown with that hand, I don't know if I could have done the same. But after reading your thoughts on the hand, I defintely think you made the right decision.

#37: I like limping small PPs in EP to limp to set, why raise in EP when you have such a good chance of running into a reraiser and most likely a tough decision post-flop if you get any cards higher than 7?

I really felt I played this hand (#37) perfectly, just got crazy unlucky. Many good aggressive players will usually raise hands like this in early position instead of limping, because really to a good player its just too obvious that you have a middle / small pocket pair when you limp in early position. The number of hands I'll raise from UTG and UTG+1 are pretty damn small, so I throw in mid and small pocket pairs for 2 big reasons:

One, to hopefully get more action from my AA-QQ hands that I raise in early position, as they see me raising hands like these weak pairs in early position and start to fear the raise less when they have JJ or whatever. Two, it disguises my hand very well. Lets say they're putting me on a big pair and call with something like 87s to try and bust me, and the flop comes 872. They're absolutely willing to give me my stack here every time, no matter how deep the stacts are (with non-deep stacks, of course they would here, but with 10/20 blinds, that's a very different thing really). They'll also play the flop aggressively usually, raising over the top of me and trying to get all of the money in quickly, since they're putting me on a completely different type of hand.

Its honestly just too damn obvious to me when a good player limps UTG. 99% of the time they have a low pocket pair, and not the AA type hands that most people expect, especially if that player that limped UTG is known and feared. If you play with a guy like Devilfish in some big event and he limps UTG, he has a small pocket pair over 90% of the time, trust me. He's counting on you to be so afraid of him and so afraid that he's slowplaying AA that you just limp along with TT or AK or whatever, and that he can then hopefully flop a set and bust you.

Bad players limp all the time, so that's very different for them. Anyway, with this low of blinds, I really wouldn't have minded a reraise preflop either, as it'd still be a very small percentage of my stack, and then I'd know that I was up against a big overpair. I'd call just for the implied odds on hitting a set, but dump the 77 if I didn't catch a set in that case. I also don't really mind being in tough positions post flop. I'm pretty confident in my post flop ability, to both make tough laydowns and tough calls, so I don't worry about it too much.

(#37 cont.) After you made your set on the river, what were your motives on the check / call if you were scared of the straight why call the river bet?

This is basically your standard high buyin river play here. I put him on a flush draw the entire hand, which did not get there. If he just had a straight draw, like a 4, I felt that he probably would've folded on the turn, as I threw a pretty big bet out there. So basically, I checked to him to see what he'd do, and largely to give him a chance to bluff if he had missed a flush draw. He threw out a very big bet, near the pot size, and it looked like a probable bluff to me with two high spades that had missed the flush but now saw the opportunity to represent a straight. So I really wasn't that scared of the straight, I just thought that was my best chance of getting money out of him if I had the best hand. Also, consider my river pot odds for me were like 3-4 to 1, and it was a pretty damn easy call, to be honest. I even could beat some real hands that he would possibly value bet, like a rivered two pair (with 76 for example, that would've had top pair and a gutshot on the flop, a pair and a double gutshot on the turn, etc.), as he could be putting me on a big pocket pair for the reasons I stated above.

As I said in the chat, it was pretty horrid luck that he missed his flush draw but hit runner runner straight on me, including the river 7 that gave me my set. I wouldn't have given him a dime if a spade came, while the cards that did came gave too good of a bluffing opportunity to him to not pay him off.

#38: After checking the river, did you put your opponent on a hand like KQ or AQ, or were you sure he would take a stab at the pot where you would come over the top of him?

Yes. Absolutely postively sure. I still can't believe that river check, I'd have bet that hand every time, on the river at the very least.

#40: Nice laydown.

#82: Unlcuky...

Michael, I have a lot of respect for you with the tournaments you have won online, and with how well you did in the WSOP 2005 main event. I'm not criticizing your play, I just wanted to see what you were thinking in these hands. One of the weakest parts of my game is analyzing every hand and thinking things through before I do them, so any insight would be helpful. Very, very unlucky tourney, however. You were dealt some nice cards, made some good laydowns, and played your hands fine, but just ran into some bad luck...

Thanks. And its no problem questioning my plays, I enjoy debating hands and all that. Gives me a good opportunity to review my plays, etc.

What was sad was I thought I played almost all of these hands beautifully, and was doing my best to try and minimize my risk, and minimize the luck factor, by not reraising with the big hands when I thought I was probably ahead and making big laydowns when I thought I was probably behind. But honestly, I've never had that much bad luck in just over an hour of play before in my life, in a MTT at least. I was pretty doomed by the way the cards were dealt, and can't really regret much of anything I did here.

Get this junk outta mah forum!

{Moved to HSH}

-'rilla

I'm bumping this up one last time. For all you guys that are trying to learn some MTT knowledge from me, these last couple posts are two of the most informative that I've posted. I know a lot of you guys could benefit from these.

They're more along the lines of how you don't have to lose your stack every time you have a big hand and its beaten, instead of the more fun look at me bluff with junk type post, but its just as important. Very difficult marginal situation (where its tough to know exactly what the correct play is) type hands.

Maybe some of you read it and picked up some new stuff and all that, and just didn't have anything to say about it. But just in case you guys didn't see it, one last bump.

Wow...I'm very impressed. Very nice laydowns/minimizing losses. And horrible luck. Ah well...it all evens out in the end. Thanks for a great post. Question though: in 1 of the hands there is potential to push the other player off his winning hand--the AA/KK/QQ guy. But you opted to not try. At these higher buyin events, a lot of folks know how to fold--I find at least--but apperently u didn't think he could. Yet u don't bet out very hard with ur set vrs TPTK later, since u are afraid he would fold. These are obviously 2 different players and 1 might be tight and the other loose for all I know, but still, made me think. Perhaps u could have pushed the overpair out with some scary betting, which would let u bet your monsters harder. Perhaps it is because I'm worse at reading my opponents than u, but me being a winning player, comes from me being able to make bets that force people to fold those sort of hands, combined with the action these bluffs bring me later. Then again, I do bust a lot!

Originally Posted by Aquinas

in 1 of the hands there is potential to push the other player off his winning hand--the AA/KK/QQ guy. But you opted to not try. At these higher buyin events, a lot of folks know how to fold--I find at least--but apperently u didn't think he could.

... Perhaps u could have pushed the overpair out with some scary betting, which would let u bet your monsters harder. Perhaps it is because I'm worse at reading my opponents than u, but me being a winning player, comes from me being able to make bets that force people to fold those sort of hands, combined with the action these bluffs bring me later. Then again, I do bust a lot!

Personally, I thought that the guy with the big stack that I put on the bigger pocket pair in #24 was a fish. He seemed to be building his stack entirely through getting a ton of big hands, and he didn't seem like the type that could lay down a hand like AA on a non-scary flop (or practically any flop really). Also, if the player were any good, I think he'd probably put me on a hand similar to what I had given the preflop action, which would be QQ-TT. If I had 44 or 33, its highly unlikely I would've raised preflop after an UTG limp and another limp. 99 was a possible holding for me, but obviously less likely than TT, JJ, and QQ, so in every way I expect he'd have called a reraise, including an all in one.

Also, I generally don't try to push players off of premium hands. I more look to play small ball (as Harrington describes it) and steal small pots, and then make the occasional big play when I think the opposing player has a rather weak hand.

Most importantly, the blinds just aren't big enough (its still 10/20 ... the first level) and its too early in the tourney to be making big plays that risk my stack. I think your inclination here to try and bluff is largely due to me holding JJ. I know lots of times people are unwilling to lay down a big pocket pair like KK on a Axx flop, or JJ on a Qxx flop, and then rationalize their rereraise by considering it a bluff, but there's just better times to do this. That's largely because they aren't willing to trust their instinct that they're beat. My instinct said I was beat, so I folded.

Yet u don't bet out very hard with ur set vrs TPTK later, since u are afraid he would fold.

That's just not accurate at all. I wasn't afraid he would fold, I was honestly just trying to get the most I possibly could out of the hand. I ended up getting the least I possibily could out of it, but that was because I couldn't imagine him checking that turn and river.

Reraising on the flop on hand #38 would've given him the possibility to lay the hand down without putting another dime into the pot, given the strength I'd have shown. It wouldn't be that hard for a good player to put me on AA, KK, or a set after raising preflop, betting the flop, and then reraising a raise. So, I intended to check raise on the turn, and just called the flop bet. The turn check surprised me, and was very cautious. It was clear that he intended to just call my river bet if I lead out on the river. I thought that by checking it would be clear that I did not have TPTK beat, and I honestly consider his river check to be a bad play, irregardless of what I actually had. Any good player, myself included, would've bet that river for value, and then I could've reraised him. That was the plan anyway.

It didn't work out well that time, but I still like the play.

Hi Michael

#12: I really dont like your call on this flop, its a suited-connected board and very few cards improve your hand. I also don't like the smooth call on the turn, why not raise here? Its not unlikely that he has a flush draw too and you could be in real trouble on the river if another club comes. What was your plan with this hand? Were you planning on bluffing him off the hand?

#15: I don't know why you considered raising the river here? He checked the flop and then woke up on the turn, he either has the other T (and likely a better kicker) or he hit a 2 outer on you for the FH.

Enlighten me.

Some sick laydowns in the other hands and some tough breaks.

Originally Posted by arkana

Hi Michael

#12: I really dont like your call on this flop, its a suited-connected board and very few cards improve your hand. I also don't like the smooth call on the turn, why not raise here? Its not unlikely that he has a flush draw too and you could be in real trouble on the river if another club comes. What was your plan with this hand? Were you planning on bluffing him off the hand?

I didn't remember that the flop was suited, so that makes it a bit odd. Other than that, plays like this are pretty standard for me, and are the way that I counteract continuation bets. I call on the flop and see what he's going to do on the turn. If he just had high cards, a draw, or was making a continuation bet, he's likely to check the turn behind me, letting me know my hand is good. If the turn gives me two pair or better, I may win a decent pot off of it. Its a marginal call for sure, but I'm best at reading the turn, so I don't expect to lose much more than my flop call here, if I don't win the hand.

Obviously I was planning on checkraising when the 9 hit, but I got a strange vibe due to the size of his bet on the turn that he wasn't worried about the 9. On the river when he again made a value size bet that seemed to be begging for a call, I got the same vibe.

#15: I don't know why you considered raising the river here? He checked the flop and then woke up on the turn, he either has the other T (and likely a better kicker) or he hit a 2 outer on you for the FH.

It was absolutely obvious that he had the other T. But what you aren't considering is that he completed the SB after 3 limpers. He may have raised preflop if he had AT, and he really could have any T at that spot, most of which were lower than mine. On the turn I wouldn't have dared to consider raising, as from the way he rereraised me, he could've had a boat. However, from the size of his river bet, I didn't feel he had a boat or a very strong T, because it was pretty clear that I had a T from the way I had played the hand. If he had a boat here he almost certainly would've bet near the size of the pot, instead of making a rather insignificant river bet.

The only hands I was afraid of at the river were AT and KT. I beat T2, T4, T6, T9, and JT. Therefore, I felt like I should've raised as I likely had the best hand, and I would have had this been a ring game or had I had a much smaller stack, but with the deep stacks it just wasn't worth the risk.