wheee overplaying TPTK

villain is 24/15/3, solid tagg regular. I'm rollin 13/10 style at this table.

I'll post my thoughts later after we get some discussion and when I'm not 8-tabling.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($234.10)
SB ($140.90)
BB ($210.65)
UTG ($80)
Hero ($349.15)
CO ($140.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, Button calls $7, 1 fold, BB calls $5.

Flop: ($22) J, 4, 7 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $15, Button folds, BB raises to $40, Hero calls $25.

Turn: ($102) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero raises to $302.15

*note that I cover him by a lot*

Ouch, this looks bad. I think you see 777 here a lot, maybe AJ is a possibility as well. I would just call and re-evaluate the river, unless you feel he has a draw in which case a push is best. I'm curious to hear the results.

(I play at a MUCH lower level, but,)

If you think he is drawing, fine, though it'd be awefully brave of him to semi-bluff you here. Do you think he'd call pre-flop with a SC here? If he is drawing to the straight and/or flush, he's been playing rather badly I think.

Otherwise, if he IS ahead, then he probably knows he's ahead, and will make an easy and correct call. If he called you, I think you lost.

Ugh, I've been toying with the following idea lately, and it applies here:

Basically, I noticed that when I "go all-in a lot", this incites some suckers to gamble with me. I guess it's not +EV for tactical reasons, but for psychological reasons. Some people have good restraint, but others get a rush out of this kinda thing, and they'll call me with absolute garbage.

But the problem I am facing here is this: To make this strategy consistent - and I think the strategy is great at exploiting the weaker players and getting their money faster, and it's also absolute killer if you get a good run of cards - I need to go all-in on quite some situations, and try to keep this on the whole a +EV deal.

But I'm often faced with situations like this one.. if I'm up against a "gambler" I'll get called here by a weaker kicker or a shitty draw or even middle pair.. but against the thinking players these all-ins seem to be counterproductive. I'm basically doing a lot of "only get called by a better hand" pushes vs thinking players (or, players with constraint, the non-gamblers)..

It feels like I'm minimizing value against draws and weaker hands.. those that would stay in if I played it slower.. and maximizing my losses when I'm up against a good hand. Any insight here would be appreciated (gabe?)..

[disclaimer: my normal, more weak-tight postflop strategy works fine, but I'm fidgeting with different strategies for learning purposes, and this one looks promising]

jack, I'm not so sure that this is the type of hand you want to model your play after. To be honest, I think it's pretty reckless, and I'm going to be insta-called and shown 77 a lot here.

The other guy folded, so I put 'air' as his most likely holding, given the way the hand was played.

Yeah, that's pretty reckless. I'd find a better spot to take down some pots.

What I mean to say is.. isn't this a case of you only folding out hands you would have beaten anyway? That being said, I'm getting a little better at figuring out how to apply this "strategy".. it's only a good idea if you fold out better hands when you bluff with it, and have a good chance of getting called when you do have a monster.

do you win money playing so few hands at shorthanded??

BTW this isn't a personal attack, its just that I find myself getting blinded away at the vpip I have, and I know I play more hands than you do. ( I think I am like 19-21% or something)

I had only been at this table for a few dozen hands. If we nudged both figures up a small amount, we'd be around where my 6-max stats seem to hover at.

and yes, I win money.

so you're like 15/12 then?

How do you play postflop then Renton? You always give up unless you hit the flop hard?

thats a very general question

what do you mean?

Actually, I don't think this is all that bad. The four on the turn makes it less likely he flopped a set. It makes no sense to slowplay something like QQ because with how tight Lukie has been playing he needs to find out if his QQ is any good. I think he has a flush draw here a lot of the time or even air. If the flop was rainbow I would like it a lot less.

Originally Posted by Renton

so you're like 15/12 then?

Pokertracker has my 6-max stats at 16/11.

Originally Posted by aislephive

Actually, I don't think this is all that bad. The four on the turn makes it less likely he flopped a set. It makes no sense to slowplay something like QQ because with how tight Lukie has been playing he needs to find out if his QQ is any good. I think he has a flush draw here a lot of the time or even air. If the flop was rainbow I would like it a lot less.

I agree with this. The thing is, people take this line a lot with sets so I'm really playing with fire here. I certainly don't want to make a habit of putting my stack in when my AJ makes a transparent 1 pair.

The push is good if we're putting the guy on a draw/air. If that's the case, isn't it better to call on the turn and call a bet or push on a blank river?

Originally Posted by Lukie

The push is good if we're putting the guy on a draw/air. If that's the case, isn't it better to call on the turn and call a bet or push on a blank river?

I don't think so, if he has a draw you want to shove the turn and shut him out of the pot (or make him call his chips off on a draw with one card to come not getting near the right price). Even if he has something like KQ high he still has overcards that are live, and he would be foolish to continue a bluff on the river after you called a flop c/r and a 25xbb turn bet. If you think you have the best hand definitely shove.

I think sometimes it can be good, but it requires a read on an opponents play. I probably wouldn't do this against any of the other players I play with aside from this guy, but against him, I think it was optimal:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($194)
Button ($78.20)
SB ($239.70)
BB ($188.90)
UTG ($290.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q.
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $8, 3 folds, UTG calls $6.

Flop: ($19) J, T, 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $12, UTG raises to $32, Hero calls $20.

Turn: ($83) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $44, Hero raises to $154, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $281

I like that hand against a guy who likes to splash around.

whats most interesting about this hand is that lukie's flop bet is often a c-bet without a hand.
Play is very opponent dependant for me.
As for lukie's vpip, ive seen a number of players who play like that and i simply dont sit at their tabkes, but they alwasy win money because people gernerally dont take notice of how they are playing anyway. At 400nl that may change a bit but not at 200nl.