£2/£5 - KK, 4bet pot, why do I suck deep?

-villain in this hand is look2 gd for those that know him
-he has a reasonably high squeeze of 7, though I'm not sure how much he squeezes UTG opens
-his squeeze size is very large and I'm not sure what this means.
-for what it's worth, he has a pretty low fold to 4bet stat of 35
-he used to donk lead a lot, but hasn't been doing it too much lately. He bet reasonably quick on flop and insta jammed turn
-he donk lead into me earlier on a J57ss flop and c/f turn spade instead of barelling. I have seen him play several hands where he's facing a 3bet on the flop and chooses to flat the nuts instead of bombing to avoid 'scaring them off' as he puts it
-I feel like I don't beat anything, given that I'm not even sure QQ would do this. But I could just be being a pussy.
-request: someone say something humiliating or berating that will help me stop sucking deep, if this is a ridiculous spot to fold!


£2/£5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (UTG) (£1199.52)
UTG+1 (£562.55)
CO (£1994.20)
BTN (£416.00)
SB (£676.85)
BB (£1597.50)

Pre-flop: (£7, 6 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to £17, 2 folds, BTN calls £17, 1 fold, BB raises to £90, Hero raises to £280, BTN folds, BB calls £190

Flop: (£579, 2 players)
BB bets £215, Hero calls £215

Turn: (£1,009, 2 players)
BB bets £1,102.50, Hero contemplates folding..

I don't remember ever seeing this line in a 4bet pot. I'm folding if villain is any good at least. I think his most likely hand is AA.

Villain can't expect you to always raise the donkbet with an overpair on this dry board and he probably doesn't expect you to fold an overpair on the turn.

I'm not too thrilled about 4bet sizing.

Four bet sizing is fine imo.

i would not consider folding

Yeah, let's not fold the top of our range. I'm an idiot.

yeah, but we're UTG and deepish too, i don't think griffey ever bluffs here nor do I think villain thinks he does

So we pretty much always have the "top of our range"

idk where im going with this, but i think he has AA a large % of the time.

I guess the point here isn't whether we are beat or not. The point is that it's a 4-bet pot and we have the 2nd nut overpair. Stacks to the middle, let's go.

The question is: If we fold KK, then what do we NOT fold here? With that logic folding is ridiculous. Obviously if we do make this fold for some reason, WE TELL NOBODY!!!

If it's AA, so what, we would have stacked off pre anyways...

If the board wasn't J high I think I'd stack here for sure. At least I beat JJ then, if that decided to flat pre.

I feel like if he had QQ, he'd also be scared of the J and that he really beats nothing at all now. So he wouldn't play QQ like this.

If he wouldn't play QQ like this, and I don't beat JJ now, then I don't beat anything. I guess that's my line of thinking.

Good/Bad?

Don't intend to hijack but thought i'd post this hand vs the same villain from the same session earlier today which may be relevant to our decision. Villain (look2gd) is such a fkn weirdo who misses value in obvious spots and overplays hands in other spots that I don't think I can fold KK here. I just don't see him taking such an agressive line with AA or JJ. I think i'd expect to see 10s, QQ or even AJ as much as AA. He flat calls 4-bets with all sorts of crap (i've seen him do such with K7s).

$500.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 28, 07:56:44 ET 2009
Table Bushido (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: look2gd ( $485.00 USD )
Seat 2: rinin123 ( $515.00 USD )
Seat 3: Ravageur ( $620.00 USD )
Seat 4: The_b_fox ( $500.00 USD )
Seat 5: Morgil ( $503.85 USD )
Seat 6: KWR460 ( $485.15 USD )
KWR460 posts small blind [$2.00 USD].
look2gd posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ravageur [ Jh Jc ]
rinin123 folds
Ravageur raises [$17.00 USD]
The_b_fox folds
Morgil folds
KWR460 folds
look2gd raises [$55.00 USD]
Ravageur calls [$43.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 2c, 3h ]
look2gd bets [$75.00 USD]
Ravageur calls [$75.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ]
look2gd checks
Ravageur checks
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
look2gd checks
Ravageur checks
look2gd shows [As, Ad ]
Ravageur shows [Jh, Jc ]
look2gd wins $269.00 USD from main pot

How are you not betting jacks on the river?

But yes, at the same time he should probably be betting the river. Though he was clearly going for a c/r on the turn and then trying to c/r river again or something. I can sorta see how the river gets checked, once the turn gets checked through. Not saying its good though!

i think ravs hand is fine because he doesnt really have any bluffs in his range when he bets the river and thus is unlikely to be called by the high card hands that make up the majority of the remainder of opponents range that is not QQ+. there are some spots where people bet because they just think they are ahead 95% of the time when this alone does not call for a bet.

as far as reading the hand in OP i agree that im never expecting to see QQ there and that AA is a solid candidate. I think this guy will show up with something he spazzed out with for whatever reason often enough to not fold our huge hand though.

yeah this is the kinda guy that will flat AK preflop and pull the weirdest spazzo bullshit bluff with it postflop

but otherwise VERY nitty and straightforward

and given deepness im leaning toward less spazzo and more AA/JJ