Bet turn or check behind?

[SmackinYaUp]

Seat 2: SirBelvidere ( $35.26 )
Seat 3: LuntKicker ( $125.52 )
Seat 5: UGDMFSOBFISH ( $81.5 )
Seat 6: Midwestnutz2 ( $91.52 )
Seat 4: SmackinYaUp ( $110.5 )
Seat 1: DONJULIO22 ( $93.5 )
DONJULIO22 posts small blind [$0.5].
SirBelvidere posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Kh Jh ]
LuntKicker calls [$1].
SmackinYaUp: MJ = GUILTY
SmackinYaUp raises [$4].
UGDMFSOBFISH folds.
>You have options at Table 37101 (6 max) Table!.
Midwestnutz2 folds.
DONJULIO22 folds.
SirBelvidere folds.
>You have options at Table 37101 (6 max) Table!.
LuntKicker calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Qs, Qd ]
LuntKicker checks.
SmackinYaUp bets [$6].
LuntKicker calls [$6].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
>You have options at Table 37101 (6 max) Table!.
LuntKicker checks.
>You have options at Table 37101 (6 max) Table!.
SmackinYaUp bets [$13].
LuntKicker raises [$50].
SmackinYaUp folds.
LuntKicker shows [ As, Qh ] three of a kind, queens.
LuntKicker wins $82.5 from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.
nh

Do you bet here or check behind and hope for some help which would let me call a decent sized river bet? People call my flop bets with all kinds of shit and I had no read on him plus my top pair didn't look too horrible so I bet again.



***** Hand History for Game 2202490351 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Monday, June 13, 19:45:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 37101 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: GVmeURmoney3 ( $30.9 )
Seat 3: tbt27 ( $138.35 )
Seat 4: SmackinYaUp ( $121.15 )
Seat 6: plyngames73 ( $76.35 )
Seat 2: coKeezebtChs ( $30.5 )
Seat 5: mranthonyz ( $25 )
GVmeURmoney3 posts small blind [$0.5].
coKeezebtChs posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Js Kc ]
tbt27 folds.
SmackinYaUp raises [$3].
mranthonyz folds.
plyngames73 calls [$3].
GVmeURmoney3 folds.
coKeezebtChs calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 4c, Jh ]
coKeezebtChs checks.
SmackinYaUp bets [$6].
plyngames73 calls [$6].
coKeezebtChs folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ As ]
SmackinYaUp bets [$13].
plyngames73 calls [$13].
** Dealing River ** [ Qd ]
SmackinYaUp bets [$10].
plyngames73 calls [$10].
SmackinYaUp shows [ Js, Kc ] a pair of jacks.
plyngames73 shows [ 6c, Ac ] two pairs, aces and sixes.
plyngames73 wins $65.5 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and sixes.

On this hand, I thought the guy was just calling me down with some small piece of the flop (which was correct on the flop) and I wanted a cheap showdown, but looking back, that is not what I got. Should I just check the river or turn or bet less somewhere or what?

[alias2211]

On the first hand-

9.50 preflop
21.50 after flop

When it comes down to it, he was fighting the following hands:

1. another set of queens w/ lower kicker that might pair on the river for a boat
2. flush draw
3. straight draw (if you had a jack, which you did)

He may have very well come out w/ just a pot sized bet when the Ts came on the turn. But given the above scenario, if he felt like you were either drawing or behind on your set because of a kicker, he wanted to get his money in while ahead and end it right there. He was busy on all fronts. He also could have caught a jack, though, to give him an ace high straight, so he gave it a little extra gas.

By betting out, you were able to get the information that you needed: if you didn't put him on a Q there, and a well-kicked Q at that, you were due for a beating. By not betting, you may have been able to call a bet of the pot like $20-25 to see the river, but odds were not good enough to make the call (3 kings, 4 aces and 4 nines = 11 outs). You saved yourself some money by paying attention. This is good.

[dalecooper]

On the first hand I'd bet the same ($6) on the turn as on the flop. Him calling you on a paired flop like that is a dangerous signal. You don't want to project total weakness, but you also want to bet out as cheaply as possible to see if he's going to raise or not.

On the second hand the ace is bad for you, and him flat-calling another bet after the ace comes out is a bad sign. A friend and I have a theory about what we call "The Cult of Ace-Poop." This nefarious group of players will play any ace from any position, regardless of the other card in their hand. They like to call flop bets hoping for that ace to come along; this is especially true if they already have a small piece of the board, and the ace would net them two pair. They won't necessarily raise if they do get the ace, so you have to recognize the cult members in other ways and be appropriately cautious of them. In other words, check/fold the river... your hand is in danger being just second pair/decent kicker. Pity you didn't have AK here - this is exactly the scenario that gets AK paid off in a big way.

[-tmk-]

Pity you didn't have AK here - this is exactly the scenario that gets AK paid off in a big way.

How's that? There was only an Ace on the turn, he still would have lost to the two pair. Or did I miss something entirely?

[dalecooper]

Pity you didn't have AK here - this is exactly the scenario that gets AK paid off in a big way.

How's that? There was only an Ace on the turn, he still would have lost to the two pair. Or did I miss something entirely?

Sorry, I was going from memory - thought he had paired his king, not his jack. AJ is the hand you really want here. Basically any time you have top pair/ace kicker and someone calling you down with Ax, where they have paired their kicker and want to hit the ace... that's the best possible scenario for your hand.