Horrible Board

[sinky]

This was my third hand at this table, so I had no reads.....

Game #507872674: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.15/$0.25) - 2005/06/14 - 14:22:01 (ET)
Table "Sadko" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: Salva2509 ($24.95 in chips)
Seat 2: deuceswin ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 3: kittenz ($18 in chips)
Seat 4: Lavo__gy ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: DAS1969 ($24.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Stevedroz ($25.75 in chips)
Seat 7: Two_hands ($5.10 in chips)
Seat 8: Lantash ($60.88 in chips)
Seat 9: yodwin sits out
Seat 10: Misssarah ($6.95 in chips)
Stevedroz: posts small blind $0.15
Two_hands: posts big blind $0.25
Lavo__gy: posts big blind $0.25
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to DAS1969 [Ts Th]
Lantash: folds
Misssarah: folds
Salva2509: calls $0.25
deuceswin: raises to $1
kittenz: folds
Lavo__gy: folds
DAS1969: calls $1
Stevedroz: calls $0.85
Two_hands: calls $0.75
Salva2509: calls $0.75
----- FLOP ----- [Tc Qd Jc]
Stevedroz: checks
Two_hands: bets $1
Salva2509: raises to $2
deuceswin: raises to $23.75 and is all-in


What would you do ? Call the All In or Fold ?

[DimitriT]

Unless he is a aggr/loose plr I think he is trying to protect
hand there. You have 7 outs to make the boat which is about
30%. If you had position and gotten another hand in the all in
I would call since the pot is giving you some odds.

In a cash game I think I would make this call. I like his all in.
He looks like he's protecting TP. I like that we have lots of hands
in and may get more in the pot.

Yea, I would call this one..

[H Dogg]

Yeah..I have to call that. AK is very doubtful, as most people slowplay the nuts off teh flop. So yes, while AK is possible, you still have outs to make your FH And own him. What actually happened?

[DoGGz]

I fold here. Pot odds? Hardly. You have very little invested in this hand, don't need to risk so much for so little.

[Borax]

He raised preflop from MP1 and there is a flush draw on the table. He could hold JJ, QQ, or the AK straight and then be pushing against the flush. But he could just as well hold AA, KK, AQ, KQ or even QJs, JTs or 98s, depending on his style of play. Given that many players would push here with AA, KK, AQ and KQ and that you have outs against a straight, I would consider to call this, but given that your have several other players behind you that could hold a higher set or the straight (notice the mini raise from Salva2509 in particular), and with no read I would fold.

[Element187]

doggz and borax's posts explain it perfectly.

small pot, too many people putting their hands in on it.. your going to be looking at straights/flushes, you have to improve to a full house here.

[CrunchyNuts]

This situation came up in a home game recently, and I got curious what the numbers come out with for odds to hit the boat/quads here. It's 7 outs on the turn and 10 outs on the river (3 additional added to pair the turn card.) The chance to miss both of those is:
40/47 * 36/46 = .851 * .7826 = .666
So the chance of hitting a boat from here is 33.4%, almost exactly 1/3.

In my situation, I knew he had the straight 'cause he's a tight player, but I went ahead and gambled and hit quads on the river. Probably a poor call though.

[Element187]

if you knew 3 or 4 people calling that all in as well, then it would be a profitable play in the long run.

[sinky]

thanks for the replies....

I folded. My reasoning was pretty much as stated by Borax. I was more worried by the guys behind rather than the AI. Heads up would be a fairly straight forward call. Regarding the outs to the FH with 3 people betting the flop I doubted if I even had 7 outs left.

Both players behind me called the AI, so I made the right move. right ?

deuceswin flipped over AA
two_hands flipped over K7
Salva2509 flipped over QJ

turn and river made no difference. Salva2509 won with 2 pair

[journey075]

i came into this exact hand in 100nl a while ago where someone pushed on the flop of TJQ and i held TT. i called....and he showed AK.

so considering my story is only slightly related to yours, good fold!!!

[DimitriT]

I'm sorry you didn't call it - you didn't have complete information (with the other two hands) but you did have pretty good information on one hand (the initial all-in). Also note that two_hands was irrelevant since he didn't have much in chips, so this was really a 3-way pot. You only had to worry about one more hand and there's still a 1 in 3 chance of beating that straight.

[Element187]

I'm sorry you didn't call it - you didn't have complete information (with the other two hands) but you did have pretty good information on one hand (the initial all-in). Also note that two_hands was irrelevant since he didn't have much in chips, so this was really a 3-way pot. You only had to worry about one more hand and there's still a 1 in 3 chance of beating that straight.

but you have to be certain the other two players are goign to call the all in as well since your the first person to act after the player that goes all in .. if you were to act last, you can see if the other players are going to bite before calling.

one player flipped over QJ, so if the board paired the Q or J you would still lose here.

[DimitriT]

I agree its always nice to have position.. in this case thought, if the guys behind you fold (actually just one guy, the other guy's committed) you are heads up and can dominate the pair.

If the guy behind you calls and you think he may have the straight or the straight draw, you now have better than a 3 to 1 pot to pay you for your boat draw.

The only problem is if the guy behind you had a bigger set. That, you just have to gamble on.

[Borax]

This was a difficult and interesting hand. Thanks for posting it
DimitriT has a good point in that the stack size of the player Two_hands was small, but with no read on either of the remaining players in the hand I would still have folded like you did, but I am no expert though...
The mini raise of the player with two pair seems odd to me. I would have raised his hand more.