KK hand. Was I beat?

[Silly String]

I don't have much of a read on the villian(2nd orbit), but I do have old notes:
Will steal pots from LP if checked to and he won't let you draw out on his TP,(i.e. he knows pot odds)

PokerStars: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)
Table 'Ilioneus IV' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Balmix ($12.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Ramfish ($2.40 in chips)
Seat 3: ogtsupa ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 4: elkhorngolf ($12.35 in chips)
Seat 5: TaraldseN ($19.55 in chips)
Seat 6: loverboy73 ($15.70 in chips)
Seat 7: SillyString ($21.50 in chips)
Seat 8: EugeneVDebbs ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 9: akamai1 ($6.15 in chips)
SillyString: posts small blind $0.10
EugeneVDebbs: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SillyString K K
akamai1: calls $0.25
Balmix: folds
Ramfish: calls $0.25
ogtsupa: calls $0.25
elkhorngolf: calls $0.25
TaraldseN: calls $0.25
loverboy73: calls $0.25
SillyString: raises $1.50 to $1.75
EugeneVDebbs: folds
akamai1: calls $1.50
Ramfish: folds
ogtsupa: calls $1.50
elkhorngolf: folds
TaraldseN: folds
loverboy73: folds
*** FLOP *** T Q 2
SillyString: bets $5
akamai1: folds
ogtsupa: calls $5 (he took a long time contemplating the call approx. 20 sec)
*** TURN *** Q
SillyString: bets $6
ogtsupa: calls $6
*** RIVER *** J
SillyString: ???

[Silly String]

I've read this a couple times, b/c a few views and no replies. I screwed up the turn didn't I? I should have made the decision to follow through on the hand or drop the hand(i.e. bet more or not bet) on the turn and well before my turn to act on the river. What do you think?

[Fnord]

That turn bet made you pot-struck.

[Silly String]

"Pot-Struck"? Does that = Committed?

[Fnord]

"Pot-Struck"? Does that = Committed?

Yeah, pretty much. Although I think struck is the weaker of the two phrases.

[harmisajedi]

I've read this a couple times, b/c a few views and no replies. I screwed up the turn didn't I? I should have made the decision to follow through on the hand or drop the hand(i.e. bet more or not bet) on the turn and well before my turn to act on the river. What do you think?

think about preflop action & how it matches up w/ what happened on the flop. what is he likely to have called a 9xbb middle-position raise with?

ak/aq is a possibility, middle pp (tt/jj) is another. qq/kk/qq would also fit the bill, although flat calling 9xbb w/ any large pp in last position seems like too passive of a play to me. small pp is also a possibility if he was hoping to nail a set on the flop & milk it against high pp. i don't think you had to worry about anybody holding trash face cards here (ie., qt for two-pair or kj for open-ended) unless the whole table stank of fishyness.

if he was holding aq & you bet pot-sized into him, he would've probably reraised. tp queens tk is still very vulnerable on a 2-color flop (once again, assuming that the guy isn't a complete fish) so i wouldn't put him on a lone queen here.

if he had an overpair (kk/aa) he would've probably reraised you to protect it.

if he was holding ak, he would've probably dumped it to a pot-sized bet UNLESS he also had the nut flush draw. very few people chase w/ two overs & a gutshot but plenty will w/ nut flush, gutshot AND two overs.

if he had a small pp, he would've chucked it in a second. chances are that he would've also dumped jacks.

one option remains, the likeliest of all: he made a set w/either qq or tt & the flat call on the flop was a milker. the q on the turn makes it unlikely that he was holding qq, so my guess would probably be tt. it fits the preflop bill nicely (flat call in last position instead of a reraise, which would've been likely if he was holding qq) & it makes sense in terms of postflop too.

i probably would've checked the hand to the river after the flat call on the flop. i often mistake pot-sized flat calls for flush chasing, but given the preflop action in this hand, i believe you were beaten on the flop & the feeler bet on the turn was a mistake.

[bair]

i think hes drawing, if he had something i think he would raise it cuz of the flush and straight draws. maybe a suited connector (diamonds) since he limp-called, or KJ and he hit his jack on the river.

[Silly String]

River: I checked, ogtsupa pushed me all-in for my last $12, I folded. I don't know if that was right, but I didn't like this hand after the Q hit the turn. My kings went south in a hurry. If harmisajedi is right, I got lucky and the Q saved me a bunch of money.

What about taking so long to call the turn, 20-30 seconds. I often find this confusing, b/c it is a tell that they have a monster and are acting weak or is it truly a sign of figuring odds and "going into the tank".
What is your experience with this?

Also was the pre-flop re-raise to 9BB enough with so many limpers?

[harmisajedi]

What about taking so long to call the turn, 20-30 seconds. I often find this confusing, b/c it is a tell that they have a monster and are acting weak or is it truly a sign of figuring odds and "going into the tank".

let me get the obvious out of the way: for non-fishy players, flat calls, generally speaking, mean one of two things: either somebody's holding an absolute monster or else they're drawing b/c the pot odds are there. meaning: in 9 cases out of 10[1], if you're betting pot-sized into a non-fish & you're getting flat-called, chances are you're soundly beaten.

most of the time, i take extremely long pauses to mean that somebody just hit like a mack truck, & i should start getting ready to get away from my tp tk in a hurry. long pauses followed by a sudden check are especially suspicious, particularly on rainbow flops.

Also was the pre-flop re-raise to 9BB enough with so many limpers?

for what it's worth: if i think my hand is ahead of all others preflop[2] i bet anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times the pot. the lower the stakes, the harder i feel i have to bet. one has to adjust this according to the other players @ the table, of course... but i'd much rather take just a few dollars instead of being outdrawn & paying somebody off like a slot machine.

[1] the one case being when somebody who's extremely passive flops a ridiculous draw like open/ended w/ two overs AND flush draw & calls instead of pushing.

[2] for the purposes of this post, two large overs are "ahead" of a small/mid pp b/c of post-flop play.

[renegaderob1]

most of the time, i take extremely long pauses to mean that somebody just hit like a mack truck, & i should start getting ready to get away from my tp tk in a hurry. long pauses followed by a sudden check are especially suspicious, particularly on rainbow flops.

I always do a player search to see if they are multi-tabling before I make this assumption. When I multitable 4 tables, I'll often find myself clicking on one table only to find my time has run down to 10s because I've been busy on another table...