Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,292,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFull Ring NL Hold'em

Ugly river out of position

Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1

    Default Ugly river out of position

    My notes on villian was that he was very aggressive when shown weakness. When he flat calls my flop raise, I figure he either has a set or a flush draw. When the turn is a blank and he smooth calls my turn bet, I am very sure he is on a flush draw or has a ten at the very least. Don't you think a set comes alive here? The river is terrible in the sense that he has me beat if he was drawing to the nut flush, but any other flush draw I have beat. Fold or call here?

    ***** Hand History for Game 2871178281 *****
    $50 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, November 04, 19:54:24 EDT 2005
    Table Table 36881 (Real Money)
    Seat 8 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 4: Mucknfold ( $53.85 )
    Seat 5: sax308 ( $15.75 )
    Seat 7: bsteger ( $66.55 )
    Seat 8: aaronsc ( $69.60 )
    Seat 6: bdawg56 ( $72.55 )
    Seat 1: AcademyBerms ( $74.10 )
    Seat 9: CARBIZ29 ( $53.55 )
    Seat 10: maria85 ( $15.50 )
    Seat 3: xxcraboxx ( $45.20 )
    Seat 2: PPvTrips ( $57.05 )
    CARBIZ29 posts small blind [$0.25].
    maria85 posts big blind [$0.50].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to bdawg56 [ Qs Qd ]
    AcademyBerms calls [$0.50].
    PPvTrips folds.
    xxcraboxx folds.
    Mucknfold folds.
    sax308 folds.
    bdawg56 raises [$2].
    bsteger folds.
    aaronsc calls [$2].
    CARBIZ29 calls [$1.75].
    maria85 folds.
    AcademyBerms calls [$1.50].
    >You have options at Table 36586 Table!.
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 4h, 2c ]
    CARBIZ29 checks.
    AcademyBerms bets [$3].
    bdawg56 raises [$9].
    aaronsc calls [$9].
    CARBIZ29 folds.
    AcademyBerms folds.
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
    bdawg56 bets [$14].
    aaronsc calls [$14].
    ** Dealing River ** [ As ]
    bdawg56 checks.
    aaronsc is all-In [$44.60]
    bdawg56 ???
  2. #2
    This is why I usually bet the river.
  3. #3
    HiJack!

    CO is yet another fishy short-stacked drop in.
    Last time SB min-bet he had the goods, although I'm begining to suspect it's more likely he doesn't like the check button.
    BB is raising every other hand pre-flop.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

    SB ($100)
    BB ($63.55)
    UTG ($124.60)
    UTG+1 ($37.40)
    MP1 ($57)
    Fnord ($192.15)
    CO ($46.50)
    Button ($23.40)

    Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with A, J.
    3 folds, Fnord calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

    Flop: ($5) K, T, A (5 players)
    SB bets $1, BB folds, Fnord raises to $3, CO calls $3, Button folds, SB folds.

    Turn: ($12) 5 (2 players)
    Fnord bets $5, CO calls $5.

    River: ($22) T (2 players)
    Fnord bets $5...
  4. #4
    Isn't an allin on the river always suspicious?
    I had someone pull this crap on me earlier with a 3 flush board where I had kings and after I mistakenly checked the river (usually I bet something at least as well)...he had a weaker overpair and was just a calling station that suddenly decided that I had two overcards because I was a little worried about the flush draw.

    Fnord's hijack - looks like the guy has a weaker ace or KQ/KJ.
    Or something with a queen or a jack with it. He either folded the river or flatcalled with a weaker hand.

    If he was calling with QJ or hit a fullhouse on the river somehow, then he'll suddenly come alive and reraise, but only to a callable amount - $15-$20 - not just allin for the rest of his stack - unless he's bluffing most of the time.
  5. #5
    No reraise preflop with QQ?
  6. #6
    Lukie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    10,758
    Location
    Never read any stickies or announcements
    Quote Originally Posted by r8ed
    No reraise preflop with QQ?
    Hero was the original raiser preflop.

    Also, why do you have to reraise QQ preflop? I usually pop in a reraise (not a rereraise) with QQ, but cold-calling with QQ still gives you great set value.. especially in a multiway pot.

    As played, I think this is a fold on the river.
  7. #7
    Well this is how the hand played out.

    bdawg56 calls [$44.60].
    bdawg56 shows [ Qs, Qd ] a pair of queens.
    aaronsc doesn't show [ 6h, Kh ] high card ace.
    bdawg56 wins $143.70 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

    Here is my thinking. I found a large all in bet on the river to be very suspicious, simply becuase I could not think of a hand other than a bluff that he could be on. I think many times when the aggressor overbets on the river it is a value bet a large percentage of the time, but when a guy smooth calls the flop and turn, then overbets the river, it seems to be a bluff the majority of the time. Agree? Don't you think a marginal holding like Tx or even Ahxh that just hit top pair checks behind here for the free showdown? The only hand I was worried about was AT, but I would think AT makes a value bet here, something like $20. Also, I thought that it was unlikely for villian to be holding a 3, other than 33, but 33 would've folded long ago.

    To clarify, I think this is a no-brainer laydown without a read, but here I had a read, so things were different. The reason I checked on the river was to hopefully get a free showdown and party to let villian bluff if he had a busted draw. Of course villian could be using this psychology against me, but that's the risk I took when I called.

    As far as reraising w/QQ, I think it totally depends on position and your read on the raiser. If he is on the lag side, I like a reraise with or without position. If villian is tight, I will reraise with position and smooth call out of position.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •