Two more called-to-death hands

[silverfist]

Okay, lots more people calling, calling, calling me. I still don't have a general strategy. Please help.

Hand 1:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO (t2735)
Button (t845)
SB (t1720)
Silverfist (t1470)
UTG (t2450)
UTG+1 (t1555)
MP1 (t985)
MP2 (t1740)

Preflop: Silverfist is BB with 7, 2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, 3 folds, Silverfist checks.

Flop: (t135) 7, 7, 4 (4 players)
Silverfist bets t70, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t70.

Turn: (t275) 3 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t150, MP2 calls t150.

River: (t575) K (2 players)
Silverfist bets t300, MP2 raises to t630, Silverfist calls t330.

Final Pot: t1835

Results in white below:
Silverfist has 7s 2h (three of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has 7h Ac (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: MP2 wins t1835.

Hand 2:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 (t2735)
CO (t845)
Button (t1705)
Silverfist (t590)
BB (t2450)
UTG (t1525)
UTG+1 (t955)
MP1 (t2695)

Preflop: Silverfist is SB with 9, Q.
UTG calls t30, 5 folds, Silverfist completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) J, Q, 8 (3 players)
Silverfist bets t60, BB folds, UTG calls t60.

Turn: (t210) 7 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t120, UTG calls t120.

River: (t450) 9 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t225, UTG raises to t450, Silverfist calls t155 (All-In).

Final Pot: t1280

Results in white below:
Silverfist has 9d Qd (two pair, queens and nines).
UTG has 3c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins t1280.

Anyway, I'm about ten seconds from quitting this game. I can't figure out what to do when I'm getting called down, and I can't seem to get any straightforward advice. Please help.

[donkbee]

For the first hand ... are YOU gonna be calling someone down without the trips? He's calling the flop and the turn and reraising the river. Is he doing that with anything that your hand beats? You have trips, worst kicker. I'm definitely scared when he calls my flop bet because especially at this level, people rarely call a paired board without at least the trips.

[aislephive]

Okay, lots more people calling, calling, calling me. I still don't have a general strategy. Please help.

Hand 1:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO (t2735)
Button (t845)
SB (t1720)
Silverfist (t1470)
UTG (t2450)
UTG+1 (t1555)
MP1 (t985)
MP2 (t1740)

Preflop: Silverfist is BB with 7, 2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, 3 folds, Silverfist checks.

Flop: (t135) 7, 7, 4 (4 players)
Silverfist bets t70, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t70.

Turn: (t275) 3 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t150, MP2 calls t150.

River: (t575) K (2 players)
Silverfist bets t300, MP2 raises to t630, Silverfist calls t330.

Final Pot: t1835

Results in white below:
Silverfist has 7s 2h (three of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has 7h Ac (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: MP2 wins t1835.

Hand 2:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 (t2735)
CO (t845)
Button (t1705)
Silverfist (t590)
BB (t2450)
UTG (t1525)
UTG+1 (t955)
MP1 (t2695)

Preflop: Silverfist is SB with 9, Q.
UTG calls t30, 5 folds, Silverfist completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) J, Q, 8 (3 players)
Silverfist bets t60, BB folds, UTG calls t60.

Turn: (t210) 7 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t120, UTG calls t120.

River: (t450) 9 (2 players)
Silverfist bets t225, UTG raises to t450, Silverfist calls t155 (All-In).

Final Pot: t1280

Results in white below:
Silverfist has 9d Qd (two pair, queens and nines).
UTG has 3c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins t1280.

Anyway, I'm about ten seconds from quitting this game. I can't figure out what to do when I'm getting called down, and I can't seem to get any straightforward advice. Please help.

In the first hand it's tough to lay down your trip sevens there, and that's just bad luck to be in that spot. On the second hand, you need to carefully analyze that board and what he could have. Two clubs on the flop and the third club hits the turn. The board is very coordinated for a straight or two pair. You need to check when the third club hits on the turn because there is almost no way you're ahead. All you have is top pair with a weak kicker on a board full of flush and straight possibilities.

[silverfist]

For the first hand ... are YOU gonna be calling someone down without the trips? He's calling the flop and the turn and reraising the river. Is he doing that with anything that your hand beats? You have trips, worst kicker. I'm definitely scared when he calls my flop bet because especially at this level, people rarely call a paired board without at least the trips.

Okay, so the general principle you're saying is:

If someone calls me on a paired board, they have trips.

Also, at this level, more than half the people call or raise more than half the time. So, what I should have done is:

Flop: Bet- Call
Turn: Chck-Bet-Fold

The problem is that anyone calls just about anything and then bets if I stop bettting, so usually I'd be folding the best hand. Do you see my problem?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but since I'm never going to play this exact same hand again, I'd like some more general advice.

[aislephive]

Check-folding would be tough, but so early on you have to be willing to let a hand like this go. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about this, it's the kind of hand that you are destined to lose all your chips on. It's like a set over set situation, there isn't much you can do.

[silverfist]

In the first hand it's tough to lay down your trip sevens there, and that's just bad luck to be in that spot. On the second hand, you need to carefully analyze that board and what he could have. Two clubs on the flop and the third club hits the turn. The board is very coordinated for a straight or two pair. You need to check when the third club hits on the turn because there is almost no way you're ahead. All you have is top pair with a weak kicker on a board full of flush and straight possibilities.

Thank you, that's very helpful. It seems to me that my main problem here is my betting the turn again in early position. When I get called on the flop here, should I just check-fold the turn, then?

[donkbee]

If someone calls me on a paired board, they have trips.

Not always, but you have to be wary of these people. A lot of players at this level (almost all of them I find) will check trips, too, if they have to lead out. If they have them, they're not gonna reraise your flop bet because they want you to bet again on the turn, so they just call. If this happens and you want to bet again on the turn, I definitely wouldn't be betting again on the river if called (unless I river a boat).

I don't think you should automatically decide you're beat if you're called on the flop, but you should certainly be considering it, especially with that kicker. I might be inclined to check and see if he bets the turn. I might reraise his bet, but it depends ... But I definitely definitely think that you shouldn't be spending any more money by the time the river comes.

[silverfist]

This is a similar hand from another tourney. It just shows that calling doesn't mean trips:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG (t2065)
UTG+1 (t1370)
MP1 (t1390)
MP2 (t465)
MP3 (t1805)
Silverfist (t1495)
Button (t1800)
SB (t2040)
BB (t1070)

Preflop: Silverfist is CO with 2, 8.
4 folds, MP3 calls t30, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) Q, 7, 7 (3 players)
SB bets t120, BB calls t120, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t330) 8 (2 players)
SB bets t120, BB calls t120.

River: (t570) A (2 players)
SB checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: t570

Results in white below:
SB has 3d Qh (two pair, queens and sevens).
BB has Qc Jc (two pair, queens and sevens).
Outcome: SB wins t285. BB wins t285.

[Fortune 500]

First hand is a little tricky, and it's very hard to get away from. When the flop comes 774, you've got to look at that inconsequential 4. Is that likely to have hit your opponents? Not likely... now, if it were a face card, you could likely be facing two pair. I'm not sure even a pair of fours calls you down here.

Can you get away from it? Maybe, but it takes some serious discipline.

[bigg_nate]

First hand: I definitely think betting the turn was the right move. I think you're typically ahead on the flop -- he could easily be calling with a pocket pair, or even just 2 high cards, and there are a lot of draws on that board. When he calls the turn, however, I think there's a reasonable chance he's got you out-kicked, so I would check-call the river.

Second hand: I'm check-folding the turn -- it's hard to imagine any hand UTG could have that you beat. AQ could bet here but not Q9.

General advice when you're getting called: slow down. Don't give a free card on the turn if there are draws out there, but if you're smooth-called on the flop and turn and don't have a great hand, there's no point in betting the river.

- Nate

[PokerPatNEU]

Both of these hands are just really hard situations...I don't think there are a lot of players who will avoid losing a lot of chips in either of these hands. By the time your opponents get active and raise you, you are commited. They have position and they have better hands, while you have a good hand as well...There's little you can do here, but take solace in knowing that if you find yourself on the flip side of these situations, your opponent will give you his chips as well, and the universe remains in equilibreum :P.

[Aces]

That third hand is different because the unpaired card is a Q, not a 4. It's a card more likely to be in opp hand, AND it's an over to the paired board.

First hand is tough, maybe check/call the river. After two calls I'm worried.

Second hand is easier to get away from. After the flop there are lots of hands tha beat you. I definitely check/fold the river, and probably the turn. The bigger picture question is why do you only have 590 in the 2nd level? Maybe you should look at playing tighter early on.