AA Hand with a tuff decision..

[Surf_Thug]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 ($22.65)
MP2 ($71)
CO ($40.79)
Button ($24.25)
SB ($27.05)
BB ($32.25)
UTG ($20.14)
Hero ($20.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, Button calls $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.75.

Flop: ($6.35) 8, 2, Q (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4, Button calls $4, UTG folds.

Turn: ($14.35) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($14.35) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $15, ....???

The player in question has a V$p of 50%+, other than that no other reads except he's super super loose.

[DoGGz]

Call

[ProZachNation]

Call all day on that knowing he is super loose, he shows a Q say nh and get your money back later from him.

[rubixstreub]

Hmm, say he had the queen. Is this a nice play?

Looks like a bad bluff, but you're probably not getting much against a player who's shown he's scared of the two Q's with you calling his flop bet. It's kind of an all or nothing move.

[edudlive]

call and tell him nh if he has a queen

[Surf_Thug]

Ok, if everyone thinks he doesn't have the queen, What does he call a 4$ flop bet with?

He would re-raise 10/10, J/J, KK, AK.

I doubt he has an 8. I just don't see what else he could be in the hand with, but once again, maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I also thought about the fact that super super loose agressive donkeys would usually check when they make trips. That still doesn't explain not re-raising the flop though.

I also have realized that over-bets of the pot on the river after playing the hand super super passivley is usually and indication of the Nuts or close to it slowplaying.

Just my thought.

[PokerPatNEU]

What is your table image Surf Thug?

This looks like a bad bluff. You slowed down after he called your flop bet, he must put you on unimproved AK or AJ or something and thinks he can steal it. I call unless my image has been real laggy.

[r8ed]

You should have fired out another bet on the turn - probably 1/2 pot or more. But since you showed weakness on the turn and the river, they are taking a shot at pushing you off the pot. You don't know where you are because that missed bet. He probably has JT or some crap.

BTW...You were on my table for about 3 or so orbits before I logged off. I said hi, but I don't think you saw it. Just so you know - your VP$IP while I'm at the table (40? hands) is 15%.

[TalentedTom]

You should have fired out another bet on the turn - probably 1/2 pot or more. But since you showed weakness on the turn and the river, they are taking a shot at pushing you off the pot. You don't know where you are because that missed bet. He probably has JT or some crap.

BTW...You were on my table for about 3 or so orbits before I logged off. I said hi, but I don't think you saw it. Just so you know - your VP$IP while I'm at the table (40? hands) is 15%.

Yeah LAG players may call with any pair on the board as long as the have position on you. I think he is bluffing, not only do I call, I reraise, and watch him fold.

[Lukie]

You should have fired out another bet on the turn - probably 1/2 pot or more. But since you showed weakness on the turn and the river, they are taking a shot at pushing you off the pot. You don't know where you are because that missed bet. He probably has JT or some crap.

BTW...You were on my table for about 3 or so orbits before I logged off. I said hi, but I don't think you saw it. Just so you know - your VP$IP while I'm at the table (40? hands) is 15%.

Where's the value of betting the turn here? I'm not saying your advice is wrong but I have a hard time believing that if hero fires again, that he gets a call from a hand that doesn't have AA beat.

I make the call here on the river. I think it was played fine up until then. Hero is getting 2:1 here after showing weakness on the turn and river. Villain can make this bet with any 2 here and be confident he gets a fold.

[sejje]

I bet the turn.

As played, I call.

[Fnord]

I bet the turn.

Why? How many outs do you think this guy has? How often does the turn check draw a bluff from a hand that's not calling? How often are we good here?

[r8ed]

Where's the value of betting the turn here? I'm not saying your advice is wrong but I have a hard time believing that if hero fires again, that he gets a call from a hand that doesn't have AA beat.

You pay $7 with a 1/2 pot turn bet and are the person controlling the pot. You show strength and he has to wonder what you have. He may also fold. If he reraises, you fold because you are beat. If he calls, then he's dumb for slowplaying a better hand or he's on a draw that easily misses the river. You are resting the decsions on him, rather than the other way around by leading the pot. Fire out another $7 on the river if he calls the turn. You just spent the same amount but put him in a tough place...unless he has you absolutely dominated. But the worst that happens is he reraises the river and you fold.
vs.
Checking and gaining no info, while showing weakness and then paying $15 on the river to find out if he's bluffing your turn and river weakness.

I prefer option 1.

[Fnord]

I prefer option 1.

I'm not sold.

[journey075]

You should have fired out another bet on the turn - probably 1/2 pot or more. But since you showed weakness on the turn and the river, they are taking a shot at pushing you off the pot. You don't know where you are because that missed bet. He probably has JT or some crap.

BTW...You were on my table for about 3 or so orbits before I logged off. I said hi, but I don't think you saw it. Just so you know - your VP$IP while I'm at the table (40? hands) is 15%.

Yeah LAG players may call with any pair on the board as long as the have position on you. I think he is bluffing, not only do I call, I reraise, and watch him fold.

raising the river has absolutely no value whatsoever. if youre beat you pay more, if hes beat, hes folding anyway. no more money if youre ahead and a much larger loss if youre behind.

[r8ed]

I prefer option 1.

I'm not sold.

I still prefer option 1 despite your counter.

All Villain hears is this from Hero:
Preflop: I'm strong
Flop: I'm strong or contintuation betting
Turn: I'm going to check-raise you...OR... That Q really freaks me out - I'm weak.
River: I wasn't going to check-raise you silly, I'm really weak here. Feel free to bluff me and put the decision on me because I have no read on your hand. Also, keep in mind I'm a tight player that is smart enough to lay down a hand so a bluff is a good move.

I'm not slighting Surf_Thug, just playing the role of Villain.

[dalecooper]

My preferred line for this hand is check the turn, bet $9 on the river. If raised you can comfortably fold. If he calls you're winning.