Couple hands

[Ugly Ed]

I had just sat down at this table, in the few hands I had seen. "cuzzzzn" seemed pretty aggresive, possible just bluffing. He had taken all but 1 of the hands I had seen. Just dropping big flop bets. This helped me make the call on the second hand here. On the 1st hand here I flopped a set, instead of slowing down I put a decent size bet on it. There were 2 clubs on the board and I didnt want anyone to chase the flush draw. Right decision? Or should I have tried to build a bigger pot? Second hand was it a good call? Like I said my read (although limited) was part of the reason for the call. Do you make the same call with NO read?

Table "Can Martina" (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Seat 1: dmibear ($477.50 in chips)
Seat 2: crownroyal415 ($72.00 in chips)
Seat 5: tracie493 ($87.75 in chips)
Seat 7: skip dogg ($58.00 in chips)
Seat 8: Ugly Ed ($44.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Bicilotti ($100.00 in chips)
Seat 10: cuzzzzn ($118.00 in chips)
Ugly Ed : Post Small Blind ($0.50)
Bicilotti: Post Big Blind ($1)
Dealt to Ugly Ed [ 9d ]
Dealt to Ugly Ed [ 9s ]
cuzzzzn : Call ($1)
dmibear : Call ($1)
crownroyal415: Fold
tracie493: Fold
skip dogg: Fold
Ugly Ed : Call ($0.50)
Bicilotti: Raise ($4)
cuzzzzn : Call ($4)
dmibear : Call ($4)
Ugly Ed : Call ($4)
*** FLOP *** : [ 5d 9c 2c ]
Ugly Ed : Bet ($8)
Bicilotti: Fold
cuzzzzn : Fold
dmibear : Fold
Ugly Ed : Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $19 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 5d 9c 2c ]
dmibear lost $5 (folded)
crownroyal415 didn't bet (folded)
Phill didn't bet
tracie493 didn't bet (folded)
skip dogg didn't bet (folded)
Ugly Ed bet $13, collected $27, net +$14 [ 9d 9s ] (three of a kind, nines)
Bicilotti lost $5 (folded)
cuzzzzn lost $5 (folded)

Game #1135879140 - (blinds $0.50/$1) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/12/06-07:31:50.6 (CST)
Table "Can Martina" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: dmibear ($472.50 in chips)
Seat 2: crownroyal415 ($72.00 in chips)
Seat 3: Phill ($36.00 in chips)
Seat 5: tracie493 ($87.75 in chips)
Seat 7: skip dogg ($58.00 in chips)
Seat 8: Ugly Ed ($58.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Bicilotti ($95.00 in chips)
Seat 10: cuzzzzn ($113.00 in chips)
Bicilotti: Post Small Blind ($0.50)
cuzzzzn : Post Big Blind ($1)
Phill : Post ($1.50)
Dealing...
Dealt to Ugly Ed [ Ks ]
Dealt to Ugly Ed [ Kh ]
dmibear : Fold
crownroyal415: Fold
Phill : Check
tracie493: Fold
skip dogg: Fold
Ugly Ed : Raise ($3.50)
Bicilotti: Fold
cuzzzzn : Call ($2.50)
Phill : Fold
*** FLOP *** : [ 4s 5s Js ]
cuzzzzn : Check
Ugly Ed : Bet ($5)
cuzzzzn : Raise ($20)
Ugly Ed : Call ($15)
*** TURN *** : [ 4s 5s Js ] [ 4d ]
cuzzzzn : Bet ($80)
Ugly Ed : Call All-in ($35)
Results in white

*** RIVER *** : [ 4s 5s Js 4d ] [ 4c ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $116 | Rake: $3
Board: [ 4s 5s Js 4d 4c ]
dmibear didn't bet (folded)
crownroyal415 didn't bet (folded)
Phill lost $1.50 (folded)
tracie493 didn't bet (folded)
skip dogg didn't bet (folded)
Ugly Ed bet $58.50, collected $116, net +$57.50 (showed hand) [ Ks Kh ] (a full house, fours full of kings)
Bicilotti lost $0.50 (folded)
cuzzzzn bet $103.50, collected $45, net -$58.50 (showed hand) [ 6s 8c ] (three of a kind, fours)
-----------------------------------------------------

[Rondavu]

In the first hand, don't do the aggressive villain a favor by telling him he's beat before he takes a stab. He's so aggressive, that you can count on him trying to buy it. Therefore check raise him on the flop to get the draws out. You incorrectly assumed that you would allow free cards to fall by not betting. An opponent that aggressive will open up the betting round like clockwork when checked to. If he doesn't, then oh well you have outs to fill up to a house.

[Ugly Ed]

Thanks Rondavu. Here was my line of thought on that hand. The player is aggresive, and had been making good sized post flop bets. If no large or any bets were made to him. I wanted to take the initiative because, I thought that if I only make a small or no bet. He would drop a maybe a 7-12$ bet as he had been doing. If that would have happened. Shouldnt I give him credit for the flush? And fold. Or what would be the thing to do if the situation had been that way?

[Silly String]

Agreed.

First hand flop isn't too dangerous, give Cuzzzzn some rope and let him hang himself. CR is perfect with your read.

Second hand I make that call or raise the flop all-in every time.

Question: Why are you playing the 100NL game so short stacked? Why not move down a level if you want to take $50 to the table? You are going to be put to a decision for all your chips more often if you are SS. And you limit your earnings on your nut hands.
There is a difference between playing to win and playing not to lose too much.

[r8ed]

I agree. So many people called the preflop bet - one of them bets on that board. Then you drop the hammer.

On the KK hand, I would probably reraise him on the flop - possibly push. He could have As or on the draw. You want all the money in the pot when you are ahead.

[Silly String]

Thanks Rondavu. Here was my line of thought on that hand. The player is aggresive, and had been making good sized post flop bets. If no large or any bets were made to him. I wanted to take the initiative because, I thought that if I only make a small or no bet. He would drop a maybe a 7-12$ bet as he had been doing. If that would have happened. Shouldnt I give him credit for the flush? And fold. Or what would be the thing to do if the situation had been that way?

If you have a read that says he is Agg to Maniac, you don't drop your strong hand to his flop bet. Raise him $14(size of pot after bet) to $21 and see what he does. He usually folds like a cheap suit. If he comes back over the top of you he is representing the flush. Now you have to decide if you believe him or can put him on a flush draw. Due to your read, you can't give him credit for the flush simply on a flop bet.
As it was played, his flop CR looked alot stronger than a simple pot-sized flop bet.

[Ugly Ed]

Question: Why are you playing the 100NL game so short stacked?

Sometimes I do sometimes I dont. This time I missed out on some $. My attitude today was. I'll spend 50$ if I win I'll keep playing. If I lose it. I'll take the day off. I play this level cause this is where I have done the best.

[Rondavu]

You're playing with fire Ed. Don't say we didn't warn you. A large majority of us have been down this road. It's not pretty. You lose a buy in, and you rebuy hoping to recoup your loss and leave. You lose another and now you have that sinking feeling but buy back in again anyway thinking a recovery at a lower level would take too long. etc...

I feel like you're gonna have to learn the hard way. I hope not for your sake. God bless you when the wall hits. I will never mention your bad bankroll management again.

[Silly String]

I think it is a bankroll management mistake, but if it is working for you who am I to criticize.

I only see one other problem with your plan. It seems you are playing a little over your head. What happens when you hit a rush of cards and are now sitting on $120 and some guy puts you all in. Does the amount in front of you keep you from making a good decision? Does it worry you and force you to make tighter calls/pushes.
Only reason I bring it up, is I have had that problem before. Maybe it is the juice your after. Phil Ivey loves the juice. What does he say. . . He can't concentrate if he doesn't FEEL a loss. or maybe that was Chip Reese.

[Rondavu]

Phil Ivey loves the juice.

[Ugly Ed]

I feel like you're gonna have to learn the hard way. I hope not for your sake. God bless you when the wall hits. I will never mention your bad bankroll management again.

I think it is a bankroll management mistake, but if it is working for you who am I to criticize.

I really do appreciate your concern. And I may have to learn the hard way. It is just I have done better at this limit than any other I have played. I am steadily winning back the $ I had lost in the 1st month of playing for real money. Most of it was lost at the lower tables. It seems that I can better predict what people have at this level. Also I dont mind folding more hands and waiting for really good ones cause they will pay much better. At the lower limits not only does every hand feel like a dice roll, but if I win 1-2 decent pots an hour it equals mb 20$. One good hand an hour at this level will be 50$ or more. So it pays to be patient and is easier to be. Which BTW I think is one of my biggest issues for me to work on. As I have been playing more, and from the people that have looked at my card runs and told me they were normal . I have become more used to bad runs of cards. Plus I am better able to fold a good starting hand when it doesnt work out. Even if it is my 1st good hand in an hour. I try to think of it as a spider with a trap. I have to wait patiently for the right, moment, and target. Then when everything is just right make my move. Win a nice pot then wait again. The fact that the pots can be much larger at this level than the one below. Makes this easier for me.

I hope though that because, I am going to continue on this route. That it wont keep you from giving me advice on other aspects of the game. Your advice on playing better Poker is very important to me.
Thanks

[Rondavu]

If it's not a big deal when a run of bad variance wipes you out, then best of luck to you. You're still fairly new to the scene as I gather. What happens sometimes is you don't realize people are gathering reads and staulking you. It's a jungle when your game isn't sound at these levels. Like I said, I won't talk about your bad management any more. It's really your business, but I'm just trying to protect you. Best of luck on becoming a shark.

[bdawg56kg]

First hand I would probably go for a nice CR on that flop, but I don't mind your line too. Leading out is a great way to disguise your hand and if villian is super aggressive he might come over the top of you with nothing.

Second hand I would get it all in on that flop. He's shown he wants to dance and there's no way you can lay down KK (with the K of spades) on that board given your short stack. Only reason for calling would be that you have a read villian's on a total bluff, and you want him to keep bluffing. There's a very good chance you have him beat and if you don't you have a redraw against any hand except for the flopped nut flush. Having a short stack makes these big pairs very easy to play.

[Rondavu]

Only reason for calling would be that you have a read villian's on a total bluff, and you want him to keep bluffing.

I find myself taking this passive line more often against bluffing machines.

[r8ed]

The comment about playing timid against an all-in because the money is deep has happened to me - especially after I had a couple down sessions and finally grinded out a big stack. In some cases I actually thought that if I don't have the nuts, I'm not butting heads with the other big stack at the table. That thought should never affect making the correct play. This can happen when you play over your head.