G00t line?

[spino1i]

Well since PO$$E$$ED wants more posts in the high stakes forum and I am a high stakes player I thought id share a hand

This is the only significant hand I can think of from my session 2 hours ago. Villain is TAG, but seems to be on tilt lately after losing a large pot at another table. I was thinking he couldnt lay down his overpair and that he would think I was trying to bluff him out of the pot with the check-raise. Good idea or should I have gone for the bet-the-set strategy? Or just called?

$600 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, January 31, 01:20:24 EDT 2006
Table Table 64821 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 4: thethrill22 ( $782.05 )
Seat 5: canadawest ( $451.65 )
Seat 6: TunaMonkey ( $598.80 )
Seat 7: casper44 ( $608.40 )
Seat 9: word111 ( $581.40 )
Seat 10: d842m126n ( $788.80 )
Seat 3: Wyern1 ( $816.05 )
Seat 1: Dashayu ( $576 )
Seat 2: Evil_Ecstasy ( $609 )
word111 posts small blind [$3].
d842m126n posts big blind [$6].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Evil_Ecstasy [ 9c 9h ]
Dashayu calls [$6].
Evil_Ecstasy calls [$6].
Wyern1 raises [$25].
thethrill22 folds.
canadawest folds.
TunaMonkey folds.
casper44 folds.
word111 calls [$22].
d842m126n folds.
Dashayu calls [$19].
Evil_Ecstasy calls [$19].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, 5d, 5c ]
word111 checks.
Dashayu checks.
Evil_Ecstasy checks.
ttex44 has joined the table.
Wyern1 bets [$80].
word111 folds.
Dashayu folds.
Evil_Ecstasy raises [$200]???

[bdawg56kg]

No experience this high, so take my advice for what it's worth. I think a lot of high stakes 2+2ers would reccomend leading this flop. If villian is on bad tilt, he's not folding an overpair if you lead out for $80, and this makes it a lot easier to get the money in. Or you could just call the $80 and lead the turn for 2/3 - 3/4 pot. Or how bad would a CR all in on the flop be, trying to rep a hand like 67/68/78 of diamonds?

[DoGGz]

Just call, if your going to limp for set then when you flop the house just call the flop

[arkana]

I love leading the flop there, thinking a a couple of seconds before calling his raise and then check raising him on the turn. Its so much more difficult for the opponent to get away because by the time you show real strength he is much more committed.

[spino1i]

OK, so here's why I opted for the check-raise.

If I lead out, what im trying to represent on a flop like this? A flush draw? Pocket 10s or Js? A smaller pocket pair? He's likely to be suspicious and just call. On the turn, if I check, he checks. If I bet, depending on what the turn card is, he might or might not call. If the turn card completes the flush, chances are he's not calling. At some point representing a smaller pocket pair is going to be difficult, since a smaller pocket pair would not bet into the PFR over and over again (since the PFR is repping the bigger pocket pair). So he's gotta put me on the set on the turn most likely and he gets away from it more often than not. Further more, its a lot harder for me to be bluffing if I lead out. I mean if I check-raise as last to act, I know the other two guys have folded and it really gives me an opportunity to steal (thus a raise by me looks like a steal attempt). If I lead out, it looks like a genuine bet, since I really have no idea what the relative strength of other people's hands are when I make that bet.

If I smooth call, I risk a card completing the flush or high card that might be higher than his overpair showing up. This might scare him out of the pot. Futhermore, its unlikely he bets into me again unless he has a very strong overpair. He is likely going to check-behind to try to get pot control. If I bet into him (pulling a stop-and-go) it will look very suspicious. In the end, assuming no scare cards show up, I will probably end up getting a good portion of his stack if not the whole stack by the river. But thats assuming no scare cards show up and thats assuming he really thinks im weak.

A check-raise all-in is a possibility, though he might figure that I am not the sort of player to risk all my chips on a draw. It also is much less likely I am stealing, since why would I risk my whole stack to steal the pot? It might very well work though. I figure that a good-sized check-raise has basically the same effect though.

The check-raise follows with a maxim of mine: "strike while the iron is hot". If I strike now while his pocket pair looks very good given that board, he is much less likely to fold. It also looks much more like a possible steal or semi-bluff with a flush draw. Plus he's on tilt, so he's almost certain got "he's bluffing" syndrome.

Thoughts?

[arkana]

Villain is TAG, but seems to be on tilt lately after losing a large pot at another table.

If I lead out, what im trying to represent on a flop like this?

He's likely to be suspicious and just call. On the turn, if I check, he checks.

If you lead out you are representing anything from A9 to 66-AA and 99.9999999% of opponents will raise you there with QQ-AA. Only a complete rock will shutdown with AA because you lead the flop.

If you have AA and you raise preflop and someone leads into you on that board to you just call down? Fold? No, most people would opt to raise the flop bet and if get called your better opponents might check behind on the turn in which case you can value bet the river. Most opponents however just see their hand and can't resist betting the turn again (since they interpret your turn check as weakness) at which point they are committed.

Check raising the flop isnt bad though (especially if you have been checkraising a lot), most of the times you will get paid off that way too.

[PO$$E$$ED]

First of all, what's your image?
I like a weak lead here (repping a flush draw trying to draw cheap/pair of nines), it should get the villain to raise you with his overpair. You can call the raise, then go for a check-raise on a blank turn.
I wouldn't mind a check-call on the flop either, I imagine that's what most people would do. Like you said though, with this line you risk a scare card coming on the turn and shutting down the action.
A check-raise on the flop is interesting. How have you been playing your draws at this table? Would you have played it the same had you felt the TAG wasn't on tilt?

[spino1i]

First of all, what's your image?
I like a weak lead here (repping a flush draw trying to draw cheap/pair of nines), it should get the villain to raise you with his overpair. You can call the raise, then go for a check-raise on a blank turn.
I wouldn't mind a check-call on the flop either, I imagine that's what most people would do. Like you said though, with this line you risk a scare card coming on the turn and shutting down the action.
A check-raise on the flop is interesting. How have you been playing your draws at this table? Would you have played it the same had you felt the TAG wasn't on tilt?

I do a lot of check-raises that are bluffs or semi-bluffs. And I dont think I would have played the same had he not been on tilt or had it been a more conservative player.

Results:
Evil_Ecstasy raises [$200].
Wyern1 is all-In [$711.05]
Evil_Ecstasy is all-In [$384]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
Evil_Ecstasy shows [ 9c, 9h ] four of a kind, nines.
Wyern1 shows [ Qs, Qh ] two pairs, queens and nines.
Wyern1 wins $207.05 from side pot #1 with two pairs, queens and nines.
Evil_Ecstasy wins $1271 from the main pot with four of a kind, nines.