200 NL 6-max Top and bottom.. critique

[spino1i]

Villain unknown, whats your play on the flop and why? Is my play optimal?

***** Hand History for Game 3503351353 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, February 06, 00:55:12 EDT 2006
Table Table 68965 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: Evil_Ecstasy ( $247 )
Seat 4: bmm83 ( $469.70 )
Seat 6: vulex1 ( $192.35 )
Seat 2: cheeseko ( $205.70 )
Seat 1: CelebPokrFan ( $297.40 )
Seat 5: LuckyBaby168 ( $199 )
bmm83 posts small blind [$1].
LuckyBaby168 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Evil_Ecstasy [ 2h Ah ]
vulex1 folds.
CelebPokrFan folds.
cheeseko folds.
Evil_Ecstasy raises [$6].
bmm83 folds.
LuckyBaby168 calls [$4].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 2d, Qd ]
LuckyBaby168 checks.
Evil_Ecstasy bets [$10].
LuckyBaby168 raises [$20].
Evil_Ecstasy raises [$35].
LuckyBaby168 raises [$70].
Evil_Ecstasy is all-In [$196]
LuckyBaby168 is all-In [$103]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kc ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]

[Pingviini]

his 4-bet on the flop usually should say that you are beat but AK _might_ play this way, if they guy sucks bad. If the purpose of your 3-bet was to get AI good then but I think you are just ensuring that worse hands will fold and better ones will call.

Against unknown I will just call the raise and take it from there, if he shows aggression on later streets I might just call him down.

[sunfunbunch]

Geesh.. sorry I keep reading the hand wrong.

I'm going to put villian on ATLEAST AXd. He hit his ACE and he has his draw, and he's willing to go to war with it.

He figures he's actually favored and does not mind going all in.

hehe... ah well.. I tried.....

[gabe]

Against unknown I will just call the raise and take it from there, if he shows aggression on later streets I might just call him down.

this is what i do

[r8ed]

Nice play. You just have to dodge the turn and river if he has an Ace. I don't think he is ahead of you on the flop because he wouldn't be in a min-raise war. He would drop the hammer to cut off a flush draw.

[Pingviini]

Nice play. You just have to dodge the turn and river if he has an Ace. I don't think he is ahead of you on the flop because he wouldn't be in a min-raise war. He would drop the hammer to cut off a flush draw.

Or he would want to extract the most out of you. I hardly ever see anybody with top 2 or a set going AI for 3x the pot just because of a flush draw. The guy would be an idiot for calling AI for a full stack on flop with just one pair, I highly doubt that.

And you shouldnt be afraid of the flush draws when you are HU.

[r8ed]

I don't play 200NL so maybe I'm wrong about what opps will/won't do. I think this play is good often at 100NL or less. I think you are against KQ or Ax or two diamonds many times. I usually like to have a read, but I see a trend of tables newbies making crazy plays . I'm starting to give them less credit...and rightly so.

[UG]

Am I the only one that thinks we're up against a huge hand here? These min-raising wars happen when two people have REALLY huge hands...your hand is on the bottom end of that spectrum, me thinks.

I'm not finding a fold here when we get reraised....but I'm gonna try to call this one down cheaply if I can.

[r8ed]

I went back and looked over what happened more closely. I didn't pay close enough attention - specifically to his initial check-raise. This often means he has a hand but wants your cbet first. It's not a horrible play to push, but it's one of those deals where you are slightly ahead or way behind. And if in fact you are behind you might not be able to count on an Ace as a clean out.

I've been playing at Martins, so my view of reality isn't normal right now.

[zenbitz]

Evil_Ecstasy raises [$35].
LuckyBaby168 raises [$70].

At this point - the SECOND min/re-raise - I am thinking call.
Agreed with sun, AXd is the minimum. Unless you have read that villian re-raise AA/QQ every time, then I am thinking Set here as well. Also AQ/AK.

With a set or better 2-pair, you are crushed and not getting a fold.
Against top-pair flush draw, you are ahead, but facing 12 outs twice (higher 2 pair).
2 diamonds broadways isn't impossible either (FD+GSSD both nuts).

I call... and I hate the K on the turn, and probably check/fold it (1/2 the gutshots/AK /KK just beat you). OK, I can't beleive he has KK here! But if he did, he's still beating you.

The other advantage of calling is that if a diamond hits, the set or 2-pair no draw might check it down cheap as well!

[K2 the ArmA]

Think of it this way; He has to put you on an Ace. Personally, I re-raise AQ, AK, QQ to 18 PF. I can see AA, A2 or 22 here.

If he's a donk, call down. If he seems pretty tight/solid I just call the first raise.

Min-raising nubs.

[Bmxicle]

Am I the only one that thinks we're up against a huge hand here? These min-raising wars happen when two people have REALLY huge hands...your hand is on the bottom end of that spectrum, me thinks.

I'm not finding a fold here when we get reraised....but I'm gonna try to call this one down cheaply if I can.

Against some tight 200nl ops yhou can find a fold here. I really really hate getting into a minraising war without middle set or better.