Three notable 25nl hands for comment

[Renton]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($29.10)
UTG+2 ($9.75)
MP1 ($22.95)
MP2 ($24.15)
MP3 ($16.36)
CO ($23.75)
Button ($27.05)
Hero ($24.75)
BB ($32.77)
UTG ($48.74)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 6. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero (poster) completes, BB raises to $0.75, UTG calls $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, CO folds, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($4.25) 7, 5, A (4 players)
Hero bets $2.5, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 raises to $5, Hero calls $2.50.

Turn: ($14.25) T (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $24.25



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($50.25)
MP2 ($24.50)
MP3 ($43.75)
CO ($25)
Button ($5.85)
SB ($63.90)
BB ($46.04)
UTG ($23.75)
UTG+1 ($28.48)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4, 5. CO posts a blind of $0.35. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB (poster) raises to $0.9, 1 fold, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.75, CO folds.

Flop: ($2.85) 5, 2, 9 (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero raises to $6, SB folds.

Final Pot: $10.85




Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($28.50)
UTG+1 ($9.15)
MP1 ($22.55)
MP2 ($35.95)
CO ($26.95)
Hero ($24.65)
SB ($38.82)
BB ($44.64)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 8. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.5, SB (poster) calls $1.40, 1 fold, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Flop: ($3.75) J, 5, 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($9.75) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($9.75) A (2 players)
SB bets $10.53, Hero calls $10.53.

Final Pot: $30.81

[Fnord]

Hand 1: Generally a raise out of the blinds is a big hand or someone who flipped the spew bit. In either case leading into him on a draw multi-way is a bad idea. Check, see what's up and then maybe raise, call or fold. The problem is that a bet that just screams draw might even get a guy married to KK/QQ to call you down.

Hand 2: Not sure why you decided to play the hand, but it sure is purdy. Flop is fine.

Hand 3: Go through the list of flops where you're willing to go to the felt with A8o. Go through the list of flops were A8o is going to give you a difficult decision. Then fold pre-flop. Fail that, I might call and play my position a bit, but even then it's just a terrible hand to do that with.

[Lukie]

hand 1: preflop is fine. Flop, I don't really understand the lead here. Say you had a hand like 8s6s, then you can really do some damage. In that case, I think a lead/3-bet, push any turn would be a good, +EV, high variance play. Actually, with these stacks a lead/3-bet push would make the most sense there. In any case, your draw is only an 8-outer and you are first to act of 4 in a raised pot. Just check and see what happens. I'm sure you have heard talk of getting agressive with your draws for meta-game purposes, but this just isn't the time. Checking and calling a small, reasonable bet is the only correct line here IMO. Let's put it another way, you get $5 in on the flop, which is over 1/5 of your stack. You are about 6:1 against hitting your 8 outer on the turn, and you are out of position and have been showing nothing but weakness this hand.

hand 2: this is an ugly preflop limp IMO. I think you need to respect position more. I may be inclined to limp a strong suited connector like T9s or JTs here, but this is just being loose-passive here. I like the agression on the flop though.

Hand 3: I'm a firm believer in opening your game up in late position, but an A8o in a limped pot just isn't the way you want to be opening your game. If it folds to me here, I raise against most opponents, but the limpers have a way of protecting themselves and your hand really has no post-flop playability. Basically this should be your train of thought:

Go through the list of flops where you're willing to go to the felt with A8o. Go through the list of flops were A8o is going to give you a difficult decision. Then fold pre-flop. Fail that, I might call and play my position a bit, but even then it's just a terrible hand to do that with.

[bdawg56kg]

lol I was about to type my thoughts but realized fnord and lukie nailed it. Just one point though,

In any case, your draw is only an 8-outer at best.

FYP. For all practical purposes you have to look at your draw as a 6-outer. Will you be comfortable playing for stacks if the 9 or 4 hits?

[Vrax]

The problem is that a bet that just screams draw might even get a guy married to KK/QQ to call you down.

Or he might be even thinking about turn-screw if he put you on drawing hand....

I rarely lead my draws against raiser, being raised on flop or turn is not so funny. Opinions?

In position it's another story...

[Renton]

Here's my thoughts on these hands:

Hand 1: Big mistake. I should have played more passively on the flop.

Hand 2: This was a very passive table. Preflop raises occurred seldomly enough that I figured I could get a cheap flop with a trapping hand like 45s. Then the flop was virtually impossible to have connected with anyone. So I waited for the impending c-bet and stole it away from him.

Hand 3: I was playing ultra loose (by my standards anyway) because this table was very very tight. It had been fairly easy to run over the table for the past few minutes before this hand (my stack wasn't deep because I caught a bad beat a few hands earlier and lost all my winnings). The c-bet failed, so I was essentially through with the hand and just checked it down. When the river paired my ace, he bet the pot in what was an obvious steal attempt. If he had the ace I figured he would have made more of a value bet on the end.

[dj newman]

1st Hand: I don't like the semi-bluff raise due to the fact of the A on the board, 2 spades on the board and 4 people in the hand. There is no way you are getting everyone to fold right now and after the reraise, it is costing you a lot to see a turn card. This is a great spot to check the flop and call a raise, betting is just throwing away money.

2nd Hand: I like this play as long as I know that the SB makes continuation bets on a fairly regular basis.

3rd Hand: I don't like the preflop raise....too easy to be dominated. Raising preflop usually means raising on at least 1 street, and this hand just isn't good enough to do it (especially A-weak). The way your opponent played this hand, I am guessing he had trips, A5, A2 or Ax of hearts, but I probably call the river, since you have played it this hard. I don't see him betting this hard when an A hits without an A in his hand or a hand that is at least 2 pair or better.

[Renton]

3rd Hand: I don't like the preflop raise....too easy to be dominated. Raising preflop usually means raising on at least 1 street, and this hand just isn't good enough to do it (especially A-weak). The way your opponent played this hand, I am guessing he had trips, A5, A2 or Ax of hearts, but I probably call the river, since you have played it this hard. I don't see him betting this hard when an A hits without an A in his hand or a hand that is at least 2 pair or better.

Would you have folded preflop? Limped?

Also why would someone overbet the pot with two pair or better? It wouldn't be a good play to get full value for a hand like that. The players at this level tend to make tiny 1/4-1/2 pot bets when they have a hand worth playing, and that's what makes them an open book. I called the overbet and he had a pair of jacks.

[dj newman]

This is one problem in my game that I have to work on....the overbet, I have troubles reading it for what it is sometimes, a steal. I play lower limits and run into two types of people, the weak players who hit the nuts and push all in...and the others who are stealing. I replied before looking at some of the other analysis...and then thought about it a while...steal seems likely for this overbet.

As for what to do preflop, I struggle with boderline hands with this all the time, I still don't like the raise...because it is extremely difficult to play if an A hits the board or in multi-way positions. I guess if the limpers - limp a lot and fold to raises, raising is a good idea. A8o doesn't play well in multi-way pots....so straight limping isn't good. I usually fold in this position, but maybe this is a leak.

[Renton]

I usually fold in this position, but maybe this is a leak.

I don't think its a leak. I make plays like this to try to feign my actual supertight style. People see me make raises with A8 and then don't think that I have AK EVERY time I raise ( In reality, I DO have a premium hand everytime I raise OOP, but most 25nl playas don't notice this subtlety). So, I make plays like this with a negative expectation, in and of the play, but it enables me to get way more action when I pickup AA, KK, AK, etc.

Also I try to make everyone know that I c-bet ALOT. Then I slow down and stop doing it so much (except when I got a hand), and hence get more action with my big hands.

[dj newman]

After hearing your explanation, I think I should do this a little more...depending on the table. Obviously with an extremely loose table, there is no need, since you will get action anyhow, but with semi-knowledgeable players, this could probably help some....I do struggle with getting action on certain tables.

[Renton]

I like to hear one of our veterans verify that this is a good move. I am probably full of crap.

[Renton]

[quote="dj newman"]This is one problem in my game that I have to work on....the overbet, I have troubles reading it for what it is sometimes, a steal. I play lower limits and run into two types of people, the weak players who hit the nuts and push all in.[quote]

The overbet is rarely a flat out steal, in my experience. It typically indicates a GOOD, but not GREAT hand. See case below, happened just now, and it caused my negative session to turn positive.

***** Hand History for Game 3593873983 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, February 20, 22:30:38 ET 2006
Table Contender (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 7: Renton555 ( $38.50 )
Seat 2: newton118 ( $57.45 )
Seat 10: rconforti ( $7.78 )
Seat 3: all_in_4tw ( $30.41 )
Seat 8: nysmo ( $34.85 )
Seat 5: YanksFan0213 ( $10.25 )
Seat 6: JMSwindler ( $24 )
Seat 1: Davidium78 ( $23.75 )
Seat 4: catdady79 ( $15 )
newton118 posts small blind [$0.10].
all_in_4tw posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Kc Kh ]
>You have options at Sandbag Table!.
YanksFan0213 folds.
JMSwindler raises [$1.50].
Renton555 raises [$2.75].
nysmo folds.
>You have options at Playtime Table!.
rconforti folds.
Davidium78 folds.
newton118 folds.
all_in_4tw folds.
JMSwindler calls [$1.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 3h, 5h ]
JMSwindler bets [$4].
Renton555 calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
>You have options at Playtime Table!.
JMSwindler is all-In.
Renton555 calls [$17.25].
** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]
JMSwindler shows [ Qd, Qc ] a pair of queens.
Renton555 shows [ Kc, Kh ] a pair of kings.
Renton555 wins $45.95 from the main pot with a pair of kings.

In 3 out of 4 cases (at least), if most players are in vilains situation with AK, and they spike an A on the turn, they wouldn't overbet. They'd want to get the greatest value on their hand. They'd figure that the A was a scare card for me and I would fold to any bet bigger than like 1/2 the pot.

So I was quite sure he didn't have the ace, and if he didn't have the ace I had him beat.

[dj newman]

Nice play and good explanation...