Punishing floaters and min-raisers.

[bdawg56kg]

From my experience with 400NL 6-max, I'm finding that floating is much more frequently done than at 200NL. I think the first two hands are clear examples of punishing floaters. The last two hands where I was minraised, I thought there was a good chance that they were weak, and decided to put the pressure back on them. G00t?

Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($396)
BB ($543.10)
Hero ($521.55)
MP ($154)
CO ($163.80)
Button ($959)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T, T.
Hero raises to $16, 2 folds, Button calls $16, 2 folds.

Flop: ($38) 2, 3, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $24, Button calls $24.

Turn: ($86) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $56, Hero raises to $156


Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($83.50)
SB ($415.70)
BB ($426.60)
Hero ($436.10)
MP ($662.45)
CO ($886.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, J.
Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, CO calls $16, 3 folds.

Flop: ($38) 4, 5, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $24, CO calls $24.

Turn: ($86) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $42, Hero raises to $166


Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($906.35)
Hero ($404.80)
Button ($134.40)
SB ($334.40)
BB ($540.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7, 7.
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, SB calls $14, 1 fold.

Flop: ($36) 5, 4, J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $24, SB raises to $48, Hero raises to $128


Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($398)
MP ($424.30)
CO ($338)
Button ($591)
SB ($486)
BB ($420.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T, Q.
Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, CO calls $16, Button calls $16, 2 folds.

Flop: ($54) 6, J, 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $44, CO raises to $88, Button folds, Hero raises to $382

[gabe]

i dont like the first hand. a diamond draw is something he is likely to have.

[bdawg56kg]

i dont like the first hand. a diamond draw is something he is likely to have.

How would you play it then? Lead out? Check/fold?

I dunno, I just felt by the timing of his bets and whatnot that he didn't have it. Meh. How often do you go with these kind of "feel" reads?

[metaxy6]

Leaving specifics aside - Sheer aggression is a thing to behold.

Getting value is great, but straight punishing these weaker players for even messing in the pot - that's where it's at.

[r8ed]

I agree with gabe on hand 1 but I'm not sure the best way to proceed.

The 77 hand is questionable too because if you hit your Jack or had an overpair, you would have bet closer to pot to protect against the draws. That's why he minraised you. His line doesn't make sense either though so I guess it's good.

[bdawg56kg]

The 77 hand is questionable too because if you hit your Jack or had an overpair, you would have bet closer to pot to protect against the draws.

No, $24 is my standard c-bet with one caller. He wasn't a donkey, so I'm confident that he even lays down top pair here.

[zenbitz]

Hand 1... it's your read, but 4d makes many draws. I don't particularly want to check-call... I think lead turn again, check/fold river if he calls turn. What would he call PF, flop and turn with that you beat? A8o? 66-99?

Hand 2 seems better, especially since you have little showdown value. He might have to call you down with any pair though.

I like 4 better than 3 because you have outs, although tainted by the f/d.

In general, it seems these hands are going to work great when villain has garbage... but with some of your hands you will win at showdown any how. So unless hes got >6 outs, making him fold is not really worth much. I think rarely are you folding the better hand when you have ~middle or over pair (i.e, hand 3) When you have jack shit, these plays are much better, easier to lay down if you get pushed, and you weren't going to win a showdown unimproved anyhow.

The difference between folding a few better hands or not is probably swamped by the times that he's flopped a set+ and is going to hose you by re-raising, or since you are aggro-boy, flat calling and raising on turn/river.

[bdawg56kg]

Hand 1... it's your read, but 4d makes many draws. I don't particularly want to check-call... I think lead turn again, check/fold river if he calls turn. What would he call PF, flop and turn with that you beat? A8o? 66-99?

Hand 2 seems better, especially since you have little showdown value. He might have to call you down with any pair though.

I like 4 better than 3 because you have outs, although tainted by the f/d.

In general, it seems these hands are going to work great when villain has garbage... but with some of your hands you will win at showdown any how. So unless hes got >6 outs, making him fold is not really worth much. I think rarely are you folding the better hand when you have ~middle or over pair (i.e, hand 3) When you have jack shit, these plays are much better, easier to lay down if you get pushed, and you weren't going to win a showdown unimproved anyhow.

The difference between folding a few better hands or not is probably swamped by the times that he's flopped a set+ and is going to hose you by re-raising, or since you are aggro-boy, flat calling and raising on turn/river.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, zenbitz, but let me just make a comment. When I cr with TT or 3-bet with 77, I do realize that it is essentially a bluff, because if he doesn't fold, my hand is almost never good. For the 77 hand, I dunno, what would you do if you don't 3-bet like me? I don't like calling the minraise, because you have no idea what he has, and half the deck is bad for you. If you call and the turn is an offsuit 2 and he leads, then what? What about a spade or overcard? I think folding is okay, but sometimes you just get that feeling like the guy is trying to pick you off, ya know?

Also, in response you your last comment, I think by looking at these 4 hands in a vacuum, it seems like I play a super lag aggro game, but in reality I play very tight-agressive, and so I feel like with the right read, these plays will work a high % of the time since my fold equity stands to be high.

[aislephive]

I like most of these plays, punishing floaters is fun. Curious to hear the results, though.

[Miffed22001]

i think if ur table image suggests you 3 bet with a hand that beats or reps the board enough of the time without over doing it then its fine.

Id actually consider a c/r line in some of these as its unlikely opps hit the flop either (or have less than you) and may decide to bet behind you putting you on missed overs etc.

[jackvance]

Btw sry to intrude but what is the exact definition of a floater? A pot stealer?

[Miffed22001]

someone who thinks he can steal the pot from you on a later street because the board will help him or you dont have anything/enough to call when he will show strength

[alias2211]

Btw sry to intrude but what is the exact definition of a floater? A pot stealer?

read this:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...hlight=floater

[fasin8ing]

Whats the difference between a floater and a LAGG making a rope a dope kinda play with shit cards?

[zenbitz]

Whats the difference between a floater and a LAGG making a rope a dope kinda play with shit cards?

Well, one is much easier to type. LaMARADoKiPWiSH? Please.

[jackvance]

Whats the difference between a floater and a LAGG making a rope a dope kinda play with shit cards?

Semantics? :P

But really, I think good Lagg play encompasses more than only floating.

[fasin8ing]

Whats the difference between a floater and a LAGG making a rope a dope kinda play with shit cards?

Semantics? :P

But really, I think good Lagg play encompasses more than only floating.

Am I right ?

Correct me if Iam wrong.. A LAGG doesnt mind what postion he or she is in and plays any two cards...

A floater is in position with the PF raiser and plays any two cards.

[jackvance]

Am I right ?

Correct me if Iam wrong.. A LAGG doesnt mind what postion he or she is in and plays any two cards...

A floater is in position with the PF raiser and plays any two cards.

I'm not really in any position to judge, I'd like to hear what the better Laggs on this forum have to say about this though.

But going on what I know about a friend of mine who plays a good lagg game, I'd say you are generally correct. Ofcourse a guy who plays any two cards from anywhere is probably a donk. A good lagg who can do this is rare, and it's not easy.

The term 'floater' as I see people use it here also seems to imply that the one doing it is good at it, instead of a donk calling station.


What someone said in the other thread about floaters totally resonated with my personal experience: "if you see a guy sit at a table with like 3-4x (or more) the buy-in, it's often not a guy who got lucky a few times, but a floater who was allowed to run rampant on the table."
It would seem to me at this point, that floating can be VERY profitable, if you can do it at the right table AND if you can take the heavy variance and risks that this strategy has. (as opposed to ABC poker) It's definately a skill you should strive to obtain imho - atleast I'm gonna give it a shot