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Project NL100

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  1. #1

    Default Project NL100

    Well i've decided to have the ultimate self indulgence and create myself a thread to monitor progress. This is for general updating, asking questions about specific hands and of course bitching about suckouts. Hopefully posting this stuff will give me a little more focus.

    Right now my bankroll is at $1100. I play NL50, I want to get it up to $2000 so i've got 20 buy ins for NL100.

    My big problem seems to be an inability to let go of big pairs, and a penchant for getting hit set over set (this has happened 8 times in the last month) =/

    I'd like to make this climb within 2 months. If i can stop myself running bad, four tabling the NL50 full ring tables at party, I should be able to manage that.

    Enough for now.

    -Andrew
  2. #2
    glgl
  3. #3
    Already got something to post. I know everyone gets bad beat, but i'm having such a run of it lately:

    ***** Hand History for Game 4095752860 *****
    $50 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, April 26, 01:12:45 ET 2006
    Table Table 97135 (Real Money)
    Seat 3 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 2: Zen_u1 ( $20.44 )
    Seat 3: redchas1 ( $67.40 )
    Seat 5: AndyKayy ( $122.70 )
    Seat 6: queist ( $20.37 )
    Seat 7: mikeisgodrun ( $54.90 )
    Seat 10: blackdonn ( $19.21 )
    Seat 8: f1avor ( $46.75 )
    Seat 4: fromupnorth ( $41.50 )
    Seat 1: Talktome333 ( $10 )
    Seat 9: betogood ( $10 )
    fromupnorth posts small blind [$0.25].
    AndyKayy posts big blind [$0.50].
    betogood posts big blind [$0.50].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to AndyKayy [ Ad Ah ]
    queist calls [$0.50].
    f1avor calls [$0.50].
    betogood checks.
    blackdonn folds.
    Zen_u1 folds.
    redchas1 folds.
    >You have options at Table 97666 Table!.
    fromupnorth calls [$0.25].
    >You have options at Table 97666 Table!.
    AndyKayy raises [$2].
    queist calls [$2].
    >You have options at Table 97666 Table!.
    f1avor folds.
    >You have options at Table 97666 Table!.
    betogood folds.
    fromupnorth folds.
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 4h, Tc ]
    AndyKayy bets [$4].
    queist is all-In.
    AndyKayy calls [$13.87].
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
    AndyKayy shows [ Ad, Ah ] a pair of aces.
    queist shows [ Td, Js ] two pairs, jacks and tens.
    queist wins $40.14 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and tens.


    The guy actually had the nerve to shit talk me afterwards too.

    -Andrew
  4. #4
    Renton's Avatar
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    I'd raise to 3 preflop there prob. No avoiding this particular outcome though. Just be glad he was a shorty. I had a ridiculously good session today because everytime I stacked someone they had a full stack, and everytime I got all in with someone and lost, they were a shortstack.
  5. #5
    I vary between 2 and 3 depending on the table. On some tables you get 4 callers with a $5 raise and others everyone folds to a $2 raise. This was a reasonably tight table by those standards.

    Up to $1168 at the moment.

    -Andrew
  6. #6
    settings goals and posting the results publically improves your game, hopefully you'll succeed Andy.

    bitching about suckouts
    please dont, I hate bad beat stories
    My big problem seems to be an inability to let go of big pairs
    Start playing short handed, overpairs are teh nutz there! That is why I moved there
  7. #7
    I'll keep the bad beats to a minimum, but sometimes just posting them can help you stop steaming quicker.

    I have played a lot of shorthanded over the last month. I'm going to mix it up a little I think. Current bankroll is $1240 thanks to a 30 man $11 SNG I just won. I'll be flipping between full ring, shorthanded and SNGs to keep things a little varied.

    I played well in the SNG, my favourite hand was heads up at the end, board of J8x, I bet, he raises, I push with Q8. He tanks then eventually folds and says he had K8.

    EDIT: I also want to try and refrain from playing MTTs for the moment. I love bigger tournaments, but I find myself winning a bit for a day, then using half my winnings to enter tournaments and most of the time wind up hurting my roll. My ultimate goal is to have a big enough roll to enter the rebuys on stars regularly, but NL100 comes as a step in that direction.

    -Andrew
  8. #8
    Just made a triple barreled bluff which i'm pretty proud of. Probably standard for some people, but it got the adrenaline going.

    ***** Hand History for Game 4096908407 *****
    $50 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, April 26, 04:49:41 ET 2006
    Table Table 95780 (Real Money)
    Seat 3 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: famous50 ( $43.80 )
    Seat 2: Jitsu12 ( $34.65 )
    Seat 3: HaleFx ( $79.50 )
    Seat 4: gusofleisure ( $79.46 )
    Seat 5: DivisnByZero ( $45.25 )
    Seat 6: laachausis ( $56.12 )
    Seat 7: Luigi_Caffe ( $58.65 )
    Seat 8: Svend_Bent ( $59.40 )
    Seat 10: Bigj0819 ( $19.55 )
    Seat 9: AndyKayy ( $50 )
    gusofleisure posts small blind [$0.25].
    DivisnByZero posts big blind [$0.50].
    AndyKayy posts big blind [$0.50].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to AndyKayy [ Ac Kc ]
    laachausis folds.
    Luigi_Caffe folds.
    Svend_Bent raises [$1.50].
    AndyKayy raises [$3.50].
    Bigj0819 folds.
    famous50 folds.
    Jitsu12 folds.
    HaleFx calls [$4].
    gusofleisure folds.
    DivisnByZero folds.
    Svend_Bent calls [$2.50].
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, Js, 6d ]
    Svend_Bent checks.
    AndyKayy bets [$6].
    HaleFx folds.
    Svend_Bent calls [$6].
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
    Svend_Bent checks.
    AndyKayy bets [$10].
    Svend_Bent calls [$10].
    ** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
    Svend_Bent checks.
    AndyKayy bets [$20].
    Svend_Bent folds.
    >You have options at Moon Puppy Table!.
    AndyKayy does not show cards.
    AndyKayy wins $62.55
    laachausis has left the table.
  9. #9
    Rapidly turning into "Project see how steamed up Andy can get" as I take two more bad beats and get destroyed back down to $1150.

    KK, raise to $5, two callers. Flop is Q,9,x two diamonds. I bet 3/4 of the pot, one caller. Turn is a blank, I bet $20, he calls, rivers a diamond and makes the nut flush.

    Second hand, i've got 99, flop comes rags underneath, I bet, shortish stack goes all in, I think and call, and he's gone in with an OESD and hits.

    Back down a significant ammount of what I earned. I cannot get a break.

    Frustrated.

    -Andrew
  10. #10
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    This is important. Try to forget what your roll is; forget what each bad beat and double up means in BR terms. Play with the chips at the table, because every time you think about your BR getting hit, you'll tilt, you'll play scared, whatever - it can only have a negative effect on your game.

    You have a decent BR for $50; don't sweat every $ that you lose. If you end up several hundred bucks down (and obv you'll know this without having to check your BR chart), sure, take a step back and regroup. If not, well, just keep playing your A game, then tally up how the roll's going in a week or two.
  11. #11
    Good advice, and something I'll try to stick to. Thanks.

    I had a few days break after those beats to calm myself. Then went and played at a proper casino for the first time last night (Sydney has one casino, with a ridiculously high rake, so high it makes it virtually worthless to play there, but I was there for a function so I thought 'why not'). Wound up breaking even after being up a buyin and a half in the $200 NL game. I was playing pretty sloppily because i'd never played live before and my nerves were getting in the way. I calmed down a bit towards the end but the next time should be more profitable.

    Roll is now $1240 after a bit more play this evening. Feeling pretty good about stuff now. I felt comfortable at the tables tonight, and didn't lose any huge pots ($25 was the most I lost on a hand I think).

    -Andrew
  12. #12
    Took a break cause I kept getting the crap bad beat out of me, come back and it's still happening. I worked really hard all day to be up 2 buyins from yesterday, make back some of what I lost in the horrible session last week, and just now half of it has vanished in yet another terrible beat.

    I seriously don't know how people handle it, or make any money. I just keep getting in with the best hand (straight in this case) and they suck out (make a boat). If I have a good session and make a few buyins, it is partially ruined when I ALWAYS lose 1-2 with a suckout, and if I have a bad session the inevitable suckout always pushes me into the red. I haven't had a session in two weeks where I haven't lost at least 1 buyin to a huge suckout, not exagerrating. So that's like $500+ that has just disappeared. I know suckouts happen, I don't want to be a whiner, but once a session, every session? Give me a break.

    No idea what to do about it.

    -Andrew
  13. #13
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    You may get stacked by a bad beat once a session, but you'll be stacking people 2-3 times a session with the same hands. You can't avoid the former, it's simply not possible. If you are not making back this loss + interest when you DO win, then either you're still being struck by variance, or you're not maximising your winnings. You clearly need to have a look at your hand histories to check if it's the latter.
  14. #14
    Renton's Avatar
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    I play 8 tables, and in a long session I can pretty much expect at LEAST one 2-outer.

    I think you are probably having an abnormally large amount of bad beats, but make sure you are playing good.

    And, as I am sure you are aware but I just wanted to make for certain, having your KK drawn out on by QQ on the river and then getting all in on the river isn't a bad beat.
  15. #15
    Here's the thing: bad beats never stop, particularly when you're playing good poker against bad players. I know when you're getting stacked over and over, it makes you think that the laws of probability do not apply to you, and the "in the long run" conversations can often make you think “in the long run, this donk will take my chips and just give them to some other donk.” I think from this post one of two things is happening.

    The first is that you’re winning money at a fairly steady rate, and you just think that you should be winning more because you’re taking a bad beat or two every day. If this is the case, then you need to get real and stop steaming, because that’s how it’s supposed to work. Even if you get all your chips in the pot pre-flop with AA vs. KK five times in a session, the odds are you’re going to lose at least once, and that number of goes down dramatically if there are other people in the pot. Is it really a bad beat? If KK is supposed to win that percentage of the time, are we really justified in steaming about it? And that’s one of the best possible situations! It’s even worse if you’ve got KK, an absolute monster, against AQ, or even A2! The reality is that poker isn’t about lock hands or situations, it’s about aggressively exploiting edges, and also realizing that these edges generally small enough that you are going to lose pots not just every once in a while, but frequently. Otherwise, you’re doing something wrong. Too many players have tunnel vision about “bad beats” and lose sight of the pots they won with an edge for the pots they lost with an edge. Then, of course, they give up their edge.

    I think what is absolutely critical in poker is to realize several things. First, poker is gambling, and I think any good poker player understands that. The best poker players make money because they know how to pick and choose their bets in such a way that they have an edge. Not a certainty (although it's nice when that happens), but an edge. It’s easy to get this part—it’s intuitive and even people who say “poker isn’t gambling” get it (they just misspeak). What a lot of players do not understand is that part of poker skill is learning how to accept and adjust to a game in which there are no guarantees, or even a “right” way to play, and therefore to get better one has to (a) accept responsibility for the outcomes, no matter what they are, or how improbable they are, and (b) adjust their game accordingly.

    The second possibility in this post is that you are taking "bad beats" and posting losing sessions. In this case, no matter how improbable the beats were, no matter how well you played, you have to accept that you lost in a game of skill and force yourself to look towards how you could have won. Did you absolutely act optimally in each situation? It’s highly doubtful, because it’s nearly impossible. Poker is a game of incomplete information in uncertain situations—we have to focus on making correct decisions in the variety of situations—and then focus on results. There are so many things to focus on in the game, I think its easy to just look at the final odds when the chips are in the middle, rather than focusing on the much more complex question of how and why they got there.

    Just based on things that you’ve written, here are some things I’m noticing:

    1. If you’re getting stacked so often, I’m curious if you’re really quick to commit all of your chips on too many hands, particularly high pocket pairs. These are most difficult hands to play in NL for a reason: they are powerhouses pre-flop but once the flop comes, unless you have a set, you just have a concealed top pair. You have to play accordingly and have to discipline to make the right reads and stick with them.

    2. When players talk about “bad beats” they often discuss hands in which they committed all of their chips either pre-flop or on the flop. But realize that the best players are more reluctant to do this, because it dramatically increases their variance, and forces them to accept gambles where they have little information about what they are up against. If one of us was sitting at the big NL game in Vegas, with Phil Helmuth on our left, and Phil Ivey on our right, it would be in our best interest to play ulta-aggressively and push either pre-flop or on the flop frequently. It forces them to give up their edge and puts us in more coinflip situations, which in this case, increases our chances of winning. The opposite is true if you’re a good player against a worse one. Let’s say you have JJ and the board comes Jh-9h-6c. You raised to five times the big blind pre-flop in middle position and were called by the CO and the big blind. Then, on the flop, you do what you should do and bet pot with a nice bet, about 2/3 of the pot, hope to induce some action. The C.O. min raises you and the BB folds. Do you push? It really depends. You know you have the best hand, but you also know it’s vulnerable, and your edge is huge but probably not invincible if he’s got a straight or flush draw. Sometimes, the right move is to push, sometimes the move is to just re-raise, and sometimes a smooth call is the best. Let’s say you know the player is pretty loose and aggressive, and you’re moderately sure that he’s on a pure flush draw, and is trying to see if you’re c-betting, but you’ve seen him call all-ins with flush draws on the flop before. Should you push here? Sometimes, but a good move is also to call. Now the turn comes a 3s, and you pop it with a pot-sized bet. Now, you’ve just put our flushie to a tougher test. One, he’s more likely to fold, and you’re more likely to take down a decent pot right there. But even if he calls, you’ve got a much, much bigger edge, and he’s making a bigger mistake to call getting only 2-1 odds. In this hand, let’s say he folds, and the river would have been a h. You win a pot you would have lost otherwise lost to a “bad beat.” It’s not that you didn’t have an edge, but if you’re worried about losing, then focus on pushing even bigger edges. Sometimes you should 3-bet it, because you know the player will just call if he’s on a flush draw, but you also know that he’ll come over the top and push all-in if the poor sap is willing to do that with two-par. Then you know he’s drawing almost dead and you’re going to take all his chips. And sometimes you should just push, depending on your stack sizes, and the player. The point is that these decisions have a ton of variables, and they all have to be taken into consideration.

    3. While I’m saying that you should, without a doubt, take the results of each session seriously, at the same time you have to stop thinking about the money. Poker is a game. People who succeed at it view it as a strategic game and largely forget about the meaning of the money they play it with. They just focus on winning in that particular moment. You need to do that too.

    4. Finally, poker is a psychological game, and there’s an aspect of it that I call the metaphysics of winning. You have to expect to win. You can’t be thinking about the bad beats, you can’t be scared of the odds, and you can’t have a lot of doubt in yourself. If you recall the times when you’re losing and when you’re winning, I bet you’ll also recall the feeling you had in your gut both before it happened and as it was happening. On the days when you won, before the game you felt ready and lucid, and during the game you felt the “groove” and won as expected. On the losing days, I’m betting you felt kind of out of it or in a bad mood, and as the session wore on felt a sort of fog taking over your play and mindset. Suddenly, you’re playing not to lose, or to get even, and you’re thinking about your bankroll and trying to make it up. The best players figure out how to “feel” like they do on their winning sessions more, and minimize the amount of time they play when they feel like they do on their losing sessions. Moreover, good players always expect to win. They are fearless, but skillful, and they put themselves into situations to get lucky, and to make great plays. A large part of a poker player’s “edge” comes from confidence. If you don’t have it, don’t play, especially no-limit.

    That’s what I can think of right now.
  16. #16
    LimpinAintEZ's Avatar
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    OUTSTANDING post - I vote to make it a sticky...I know we all tend to forget it, but hold em is a game of small edges. Exploiting those edges over and over and over.

    anyway, i've read this 2x already and i'm going to print it out and put it on my wall. Excellent post -
    this space intentionally left blank
  17. #17
    Well, haven't updated this in a week or so, but now I have news. I got sick of the beats. They kept coming and I got frustrated. In a move that was probably -EV in the long run, I opened two tables of NL200 and focussed entirely on them.

    I knew there was a good chance I would blow those buyins, but my bankroll has the flexibility to be added to if necessary (but I don't like to, poker money is poker money and vice versa) and wanted to take a shot.

    Suffice to say, I won, and won big. I've 2-tables NL200 for about 4 hours, and i'm up about $900. My bankroll is about $2100 at this point and whilst I know it throws all bankroll management out the window, i'm going to play a bit more NL200, at least until I get stacked once.

    My bluffs at this level actually work, I've been sucked out on once and at that point I had only commited about $40, and i'm finding my play works perfectly. At this stage i'm playing fairly passively before the flop, and mostly TAG afterwards, but picking solid spots to bluff and pulling them off. If my success happens to continue, and I wind up rolled for NL200 properly, i'll open up and become a little more LAG, but i'm still treading cautiously and trying to get paid off for big hands (which is happening so far).

    I can use a good analogy here. I used to be a tennis coach, and am a pretty good player. Generally, it can be easier playing a better player than to play a mediocre one, because the better player has pace you can use against them etc. I feel a lot more comfortable playing better poker players than I did playing the NL50 guys.

    People will probably tell me it's a bad idea, and yea, probably true, but i've been running so hot the last two days that it's worth continuing at least until I drop one buyin. I made $600 in an hour tonight, without being all-in once. Making $600 at NL50 was going to take me an age.

    Anyway, I shall report back with more later.

    -Andrew
  18. #18
    Renton's Avatar
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    I was down 1k at one point last saturday playing 200nl.

    You really, really, should just take the money and run and play 100nl. Its softer anyways (bluffs work there too).

    200nl is just like 100nl except your big hands get paid off less.
  19. #19
    I intend to drop down to 100NL, but like I said, i'm waiting till I drop a buyin before I do. I know poker is all about maths fundamentally, but I believe to some extent in the ability to run hot, and that's what i'm doing right now. Not just in terms of cards, but it boosts your confidence, you play better, focus etc. I'm not going to do myself any harm continuing till I have a loosing session. Worst case scenario it occurs tomorrow and I hit $1900 and drop down to NL100.

    I'm not stupid enough to hang around and lose it all.

    -Andrew

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