Sticky Situation, tell me I am too weak (25NL, Alamo, 10max)

[ProZachNation]

Sorry I dont know of a converter for Alamo. Pre-flop is standard for me, I think is pretty standard they seem to like to chase for flushes on alamo so I usually make it 2/3s of the pot if the board is suited at all, turn is weak I know, called the raise because I figured I had odds too ($3 into a $16 pot), called the river because I figured I was ahead enough of the time to get away with it.

Most concerned about the turn and river.

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL (Real Money), #494,535,564
Table Bologna, 17 May 2006 7:34 PM ET
Seat 1: ActionCond ($13.95 in chips)
Seat 2: not head ($56.80 in chips)
Seat 3: ProZach0 ($25.35 in chips) [ JH,JC ]
Seat 4: Carl_n_Lenny ($24.55 in chips)
Seat 5: icupnonmydad ($25.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Anton_arius ($21.35 in chips)
Seat 7: Taezax ($22.30 in chips)
Seat 9: StripprsNBlo ($25 in chips)
Seat 10: blakdawg ($3.95 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Taezax posts blind ($0.15), StripprsNBlo posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
blakdawg folds, ActionCond folds, not head folds, ProZach0 bets $1, Carl_n_Lenny folds, icupnonmydad folds, Anton_arius folds, Taezax calls $0.85, StripprsNBlo calls $0.75.

FLOP [board cards 2C,5D,JD ] Pot- $3
Taezax checks, StripprsNBlo checks, ProZach0 bets $2, Taezax calls $2, StripprsNBlo folds.

TURN [board cards 2C,5D,JD,6D ] Pot- $7
Taezax checks, ProZach0 bets $3, Taezax bets $6, ProZach0 calls $3.

RIVER [board cards 2C,5D,JD,6D,9H ] Pot- $19
Taezax bets $5, ProZach0 calls $5.

SHOWDOWN
Taezax shows [ KS,JS ]
ProZach0 shows [ JH,JC ]
ProZach0 wins $28.50.
SUMMARY
Dealer: Anton_arius
Pot: $29, (including rake: $0.50)
ProZach0, bets $14, collects $28.50, net $14.50
Taezax, loses $14
StripprsNBlo, loses $1

[andy-akb]

Took me awhile to find your cards.

Anyways though, your turn bet is really weak, Id make it about $5 and would be weary of calling a raise. It really depends on your read of your opponent. You have 9 outs to a boat and 1 out to quads, and there is a good chance you are already ahead. At this point if I dont fill up on the river, barring some maniac read from my opponent, Im going to try to get to the river cheaply. Calling a $5 bet when the pot is $24 is pretty cheap and you are ahead enough to make it profitable. I dont know if you should be raising anywhere though, but I think you played fine except for the weak turn bet.

[renegaderob1]

Sticky situation, tell me I am too weak

you are too weak

I lead for more on the turn and I raise his raise.

[andy-akb]

I lead for more on the turn and I raise his raise.

You 3bet against players who like to chase when a flush comes and they checkminraised you?

[renegaderob1]

He didn't actually say that the vill. liked to chase flushes; just that people at alamo seem to like to chase flushes. That's not a real read; people at all sites like to chase flushes. We call them fish. They also like to play hands like that KJ like donks, and are typical 25NL players, so yes; I reraise in this spot...

How often does he have the flush here?
How often is this just bad play by typical low limit bad players?
How often does he fold to the reraise?
How often does he just call; giving you the chance to fill up?
How often does he reraise/push with a 'flush' on a board like that?

Finally, if he check/minraised/called your raise, how often does the river go c/c?

[andy-akb]

To the OP, please remove the results from the hand so it doesnt bias the discussion.

He didn't actually say that the vill. liked to chase flushes; just that people at alamo seem to like to chase flushes. That's not a real read; people at all sites like to chase flushes. We call them fish. They also like to play hands like that KJ like donks, and are typical 25NL players, so yes; I reraise in this spot...

I know, in my post I asked if he had any reads on this specific villain. He has yet to post any so to discuss this hand in the mean time I asked if you would do this against a player that chases draws. So again, against a loose-passive villain that likes to chase his draws, would you 3bet this turn? If villian is virtually unknown, do you put a hand like KJo in his checkraising range? What hands would call a standard sized 3bet on this board that a set is ahead of? Lower sets are a possibility, but this line really seems to represent a flush, Im not saying Id fold, but I think calling and getting to showdown cheap [unless you fill up] should be the priority here.

[renegaderob1]

If the villian is unknown but is known to be loose passive my flop range of hands for him are:

lower set, flush draw, AJs/o, KJs/o, JQs/o, JTs/o, 34s, QQ+ and junk like other pps, air

On the turn i think his checkraising range is lower set, flush, straight, QQ+, AJ and maybe J with face card given the weak bet by hero. The min-raise is either one of three things:
a) he has a flush/straight/monster
b) he has TP/junk /overpair and is scared of raising any bigger
c) he is repping the flush

I think you are good here at least 55% of the time on the turn. Add some fold equity and the fact that a lot of passive players will call a raise and check/call or check/raise the river and I still think a turn raise is not a bad play. With a turn raise you can quite often check behind on the river here instead of having to call the $5 (which was a really weak/blocking bet btw and I may be tempted to raise that as well)

I would only call the turn if my read is that he has the flush and I am way behind; then I would go into cheap showdown mode or try to fill up..

[andy-akb]

If the villian is unknown but is known to be loose passive my flop range of hands for him are:

lower set, flush draw, AJs/o, KJs/o, JQs/o, JTs/o, 34s, QQ+ and junk like other pps, air

I agree with this

On the turn i think his checkraising range is lower set, flush, straight, QQ+, AJ and maybe J with face card given the weak bet by hero. The min-raise is either one of three things:
a) he has a flush/straight/monster
b) he has TP/junk /overpair and is scared of raising any bigger
c) he is repping the flush

I think you are good here at least 55% of the time on the turn. Add some fold equity and the fact that a lot of passive players will call a raise and check/call or check/raise the river and I still think a turn raise is not a bad play. With a turn raise you can quite often check behind on the river here instead of having to call the $5 (which was a really weak/blocking bet btw and I may be tempted to raise that as well)

Against a player who is loose passive you arent going to get a checkraise from TP, maybe and overpair, but thats still pushing it. And these types of players dont try to represent hands, they are passive. I really think the majority of the time you are against a better made hand, most likely a flush, or maybe a straight [not all that likely though]. If you are ahead of your opponent they are either going to have a set or an overpair against your typical loose passive opponent you arent going to see KJ very often at all.

I would only call the turn if my read is that he has the flush and I am way behind; then I would go into cheap showdown mode or try to fill up..

As played I dont mind it other than the smallish bet on the turn. Against a hypothetical loose passive player [which we are discussing barring any reads] Id be surprised if we were ahead enough here to make this profitable.

[ProZachNation]

Sorry I got caught up trying to make it readable and forgot the results, Im used to the converter doing it for me.