Big Slick vs SLAP

[WhooFleuryScores]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($11.99)
SB ($16.80)
BB ($4.80)
UTG ($70.95)
UTG+1 ($26)
MP1 ($28.15)
Hero ($25)
MP3 ($24.60)
CO ($3.30)

Villain is loose preflop and postflop and has been caught making some moves earlier.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, 5 folds, UTG calls $1.25.

Flop: ($3.35) 4, 8, K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.85, UTG calls $2.85.

Turn: ($9.05) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5.85, UTG raises to $11.7

Hero?......................

[IowaSkinsFan]

he probably has a set... which sucks... if you were thinking really clear you would fold.

[Renton]

its a clear call.

hope he checks the river so you can check behind.

whats a slap? selective-loose/agressive-passive?

[WhooFleuryScores]

whats a slap?

Semi-Loose/Aggressive-Passive.

[Chicago_Kid]

hes got 44 or 88 or two pr....you are behind.

[sunfunbunch]

Loose?

I call dibs on 98.

Call his minraise and see what the river brings.

[Werddown]

I think calling sets you up for disaster.

If you hit another A or a K on the river, then what? Now you've got two pair against his set, or trips against his full house... I dont think he calls preflop with anything he'd hit two pair on here.

If you can put him on a complete bluff/semi bluff here... then call and see what he does on the river... If you cant then I fold.

[caelis]

You have position for him so calling might not be bad here? Just to see what he does on the river.

[samsonite2100]

I think Aok's recent post in the beginner section about when to fold TPTK is very applicable here.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-32893.htm

To my experience, the turn minraise is always a sure sign you're about to get your ass handed to you. Absent a miracle card on the river, I can't think of one hand like this when I've come out ahead at showdown.

[WhooFleuryScores]

Here's how the rest of the hand played out btw:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($11.99)
SB ($16.80)
BB ($4.80)
UTG ($70.95)
UTG+1 ($26)
MP1 ($28.15)
Hero ($25)
MP3 ($24.60)
CO ($3.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, 5 folds, UTG calls $1.25.

Flop: ($3.35) 4, 8, K (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.85, UTG calls $2.85.

Turn: ($9.05) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5.85, UTG raises to $11.7, Hero calls $14.80 (All-In), UTG calls $8.95.

My gut read on him was he was making a play on me as he had done that to some other tight players like me from earlier.I pushed to put him to the decision and he called so I was nervous.

River: ($50.35) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $50.35
Main Pot: $50.35, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero ($50.35).

Results in white below:
UTG has 7s 8d (one pair, eights).
Hero has As Kh (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $50.35.

So yeah this time I took it down;but it could've easily have swung both ways.My read on him was the key turning point of the hand(shows PT and PokerAce HeadsUp more than paid for themselves on this hand).Had I been playing naked with no PT or PokerAce this moron would've stolen the pot from me.

[andy-akb]

You said villain is passive postflop, Im folding to the turn minraise. More often than not your one pair hand will not be good against a turn raise, especially a check raise and even more so one from a passive player. How many hands were you stats over, a "passive" player wouldnt checkraise 3rd pair.

[WhooFleuryScores]

How many hands were you stats over, a "passive" player wouldnt checkraise 3rd pair.

15 hands on villian;but as I mentioned earlier he made some plays earlier on some tight players holding only second pair or bottom pair.

[andy-akb]

How many hands were you stats over, a "passive" player wouldnt checkraise 3rd pair.

15 hands on villian;but as I mentioned earlier he made some plays earlier on some tight players holding only second pair or bottom pair.

If he has been caught making moves after less than 2 orbits, then he isnt that passive, Im not really on stats at all over only 15 hands, based on the stats this is a fold becuase a raise from a passive player [and most players in general other than maniacs] on the turn means yout TP isnt good.

[Renton]

i am sorry

i can't lay down TPTK to a minraise on a harmless board.

I just can't.

[andy-akb]

i am sorry

i can't lay down TPTK to a minraise on a harmless board.

I just can't.

Even against a so called passive player? I doubt the validity of the stats on this player, but without assuming anything we have to go with what we were given. Villain is semi-loose aggresssive preflop and passive postflop so two pair isnt out of the question, neither is a set. Now, Im not saying I hate the call, but if it is profitable I dont think it is very. Again, this is all going on what the OP said about the villain being passive postflop.

[Renton]

True.

You have to have a concrete read of "passive postflop" to lay this down.

However, if you are laying down strong hands to turn minraises in every case you are leaking.

[xX zorrito Xx]

clear call

[Rondavu]

True.

You have to have a concrete read of "passive postflop" to lay this down.

However, if you are laying down strong hands to turn minraises in every case you are leaking.

I'm weak tight Rondavu today considering the content of my posts (I'm far from it), but you're not leaking by laying down to a minraise in the abstract here. That is to say if you keep allowing the same player to do it over again without recourse it becomes a big leak. If you honestly feel you are beat one time, and the opponent isn't out of line, then are calling and folding in this spot to a minraise really that much different? If he's not out of line he's not draining your profit longterm so why allow yourself to get trapped?

Don't get me wrong. I go to showdown for huge bets with very marginal hands when I'm ahead against people who are out of line all the time.

I'll tell you right now if a strong solid tagg minraises you in that spot you're behind every single time with one pair.

[samsonite2100]

I'll tell you right now if a strong solid tagg minraises you in that spot you're behind every single time with one pair.

Preach it, brother

[bigredhoss]

I'll tell you right now if a strong solid tagg minraises you in that spot you're behind every single time with one pair.

i think a strong solid tagg is very unlikely to mini-raise here period. my first reaction to this hand (keeping in mind i had no idea what SLAP meant) is that it was someone with a flush draw getting tricky/looking for some fold equity and that I would push.

[jackvance]

This is a fold for me unless my read tells me otherwise. As was the case here I think.

[samsonite2100]

i dont think a strong solid tagg miniraises there with anything tho

I'd say whenever anyone at the lower stakes other than a certified lagging maniac minraises in this spot, TP is no good.

[jackvance]

I'd say whenever anyone at the lower stakes other than a certified lagging maniac minraises in this spot, TP is no good.

.. or, if *you* are playing Lagg, your average joe that is trying to play back at you. But I feel not many people on this forum play Lagg.

[andy-akb]

i dont think a strong solid tagg miniraises there with anything tho

I'd say whenever anyone at the lower stakes other than a certified lagging maniac minraises in this spot, TP is no good.

I agree with this, if you are raised on the turn [generally speaking] one pair is not good enough.

[samsonite2100]

Right, Jack--if you've been lagging it up, pissed off the table, and Sherriff Johnson decides to take you down with middle pair, that's the other case where TP might be good here.