10/20 QQ, ace on turn line check

[gabe]

no read at all on villian, he doesnt have a read on me

ill post my thoughts later probably

***** Hand History for Game 4184674346 *****
$2000 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, May 04, 16:57:37 ET 2006
Table Table 95962 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 6: ladgez ( $390 )
Seat 2: galactical ( $3490.50 )
Seat 10: aandreww ( $1956.02 )
Seat 7: GoingBUSTO ( $2677 )
Seat 5: JLCROWN ( $1970 )
Seat 3: nanonoko ( $2000 )
Seat 8: Yetti ( $815 )
Seat 9: ZZmile ( $2000 )
Seat 1: robert07 ( $2030 )
Seat 4: hotmark777 ( $2000 )
ladgez posts small blind [$10].
GoingBUSTO posts big blind [$20].
hotmark777 posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to galactical [ Qd Qc ]
Yetti folds.
aandreww folds.
robert07 folds.
galactical raises [$80].
nanonoko calls [$80].
hotmark777 folds.
JLCROWN folds.
ladgez folds.
GoingBUSTO folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 2c, 5h ]
galactical bets [$120].
nanonoko calls [$120].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
galactical checks.
nanonoko bets [$300].
galactical calls [$300].
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
galactical bets [$650].

[boost]

attempting to rep the club / 5 figuring you get him to lay down an A enough?

[Fnord]

attempting to rep the club / 5 figuring you get him to lay down an A enough?

Why do you think he has an Ace?

[zenbitz]

attempting to rep the club / 5 figuring you get him to lay down an A enough?

Why do you think he has an Ace?

Because he called pre-flop. And didn't check behind when an ace turned. I would say that there's probably a 40-50% chance he has an ace. He could also have some kinda pocket pair, or 2 clubs (backdoored?), or 34.

2 clubs seems pretty unlikely without an A (which beats you anyway), 34c? KQc?

On the river... I think maybe check/call is better. He's probably not folding an ace with no read.... but do I play $2000NL?? NO.

[PO$$E$$ED]

explain

[johnny_fish]

Do you think JJ-88 will call often enough to cancel out the times he has 22/77/56/34/AK?

[Lukie]

gabe, you confuse me. What are you trying to represent. Is the river a bluff or for value? By the way I'm tired and I just donked off a ton of money so I'm probably not thinking straight.

[gabe]

heres the conversation summarizing what i was thinking


BeeSeeYouZee: with QQ, are you trying to rep a 5 or flush knowing he hasneither?
g1u: i thought they called flop with a pocket pair
g1u: thinking i had AK or something
BeeSeeYouZee: right
g1u: but if they had boat i didnt want to bet again on turn
g1u: so i checked hoping they would check behind
g1u: they bet but i dont put them on any ace that calls the flop
g1u: and if they had like 99 or something i dont want them bluffing me off of river so i bet and was going to fold to a raise
BeeSeeYouZee: but he calls
g1u: with?
BeeSeeYouZee: err right? on turn didnt you bet like 200?
g1u: i check called turn
BeeSeeYouZee: oh .. right
BeeSeeYouZee: ooh right cuz he has no ace..
BeeSeeYouZee: hmm
BeeSeeYouZee: ah and 650 is only like 65 in 200
BeeSeeYouZee: idk why but I thought you were practically all in
BeeSeeYouZee: so he folds his pp eh?
g1u: yea and doesnt get a chance to bluff me
BeeSeeYouZee: right
g1u: unless he has awesome hand
g1u: which i dont mind folding against
BeeSeeYouZee: but..
BeeSeeYouZee: hm
BeeSeeYouZee: why dont you check call?
BeeSeeYouZee: probably cost you the same
g1u: didnt want to get bluffed off
g1u: because i didnt want to call anything
g1u: i was really just bluffing with a made hand
BeeSeeYouZee: but if you cehck to him isnt it likely his bluffing? likely enough fory ou to call with 2:1 odds?
g1u: if he pushes them im in tough spot
BeeSeeYouZee: true
g1u: i just didnt want to be wondering if he was bluffing or not
BeeSeeYouZee: is that a common move there?
BeeSeeYouZee: wouldnt htat be a big over bet?
g1u: and not many people are capable of bluff pushing there
g1u: yea i guess
g1u: but i still like my bet
g1u: im posting this convo in that thread

[Iwind]

Depends on how likely you think it is he might be floating with an ace here, I think. Saying you're pretty sure it's a pp, I think your river bet is nice. Strong enough so that it's very hard for the guy to raise as a bluff and small enough for him to possibly call it with a decent pp. Too bad when he takes the pot with an ace, FH or flush though, would be real nice with some reads here like always

[gabe]

he folded, so im pretty sure he had a smallish pair

[ender555]

I think betting this river is very bad....

[Renton]

couldn't you have put in a really small bet, something that gives them irresistable odds, or is that too transparent for these sharks?

Why not check and induce a bluff?

[PO$$E$$ED]

So you thought he was on a lower PP, so you lead on the river so that villain wouldn't try to bluff you...

I would have either checked or bet less on the river, because you aren't getting payed off by any worse hands and you're only getting called by something that beats you. A blocking bet is appropriate if you feel villain is capable of putting moves on you with a worse hand, otherwise I feel it's safe to check here.

[ilikeaces86]

My advice stop playing hands against CaptZeebo.

[gabe]

ooh thats interesting

[lolzzz_321]

lol yeah that is him.

[Rondavu]

Oh you mean this guy? I wouldn't play hands against him either.

[Warpe]

Oh you mean this guy? I wouldn't play hands against him either.

That pic is just screaming for some Photoshop work...

[gabe]

ha!

[bigboy5540]

2000nl is hard. i would just check/call at 400 nl but i guess push bluffing is too common at these stakes.

[Lukie]

Gabe I really don't understand the river bet.

What worse hands call?
What better hands fold?

check/calling $650 is much better here IMO. If you're beat it costs you the same, but at least you can get some value out of him if he has nothing. I'd also imagine there are a few hands that beat you that he'll call a bet with but won't value bet himself with. Unless you are afraid of a bluff push or something?

[johnny_fish]

Unless you are afraid of a bluff push or something?

Bingo.

It's an advanced block bet.

[Lukie]

i dont like it

[Rondavu]

I don't understand why you're not willing to call a push if you check. That's my biggest issue.
Stacks aren't deep enough to give a shit.

[WildBobAA]

My advice stop playing hands against CaptZeebo.

I just found out CaptZeebo goes to my school - a small, christian, private school. lolwtf

[vqc]

I have a SNG god that goes to my school but he declined to give me any poker advice at all.

[STIdrivr]

I have a SNG god that goes to my school but he declined to give me any poker advice at all.

Have your girl ask or somethin...

[ItDepends]

Gabe I really don't understand the river bet.

What worse hands call?
What better hands fold?

check/calling $650 is much better here IMO. If you're beat it costs you the same, but at least you can get some value out of him if he has nothing. I'd also imagine there are a few hands that beat you that he'll call a bet with but won't value bet himself with. Unless you are afraid of a bluff push or something?

Bingo. EV- bet.

If you think you might have value the play is check/call.

[gabe]

Gabe I really don't understand the river bet.

What worse hands call?
What better hands fold?

check/calling $650 is much better here IMO. If you're beat it costs you the same, but at least you can get some value out of him if he has nothing. I'd also imagine there are a few hands that beat you that he'll call a bet with but won't value bet himself with. Unless you are afraid of a bluff push or something?

Bingo. EV- bet.

If you think you might have value the play is check/call.

checking puts me in a tough spot too often when betting never does

[Lukie]

you are correct in that it makes your decisions easier but it's still a -ev bet.

If i'm facing a reraise preflop with JJ and I push, I don't have to make any more tough decisions in the hand. Doesn't mean it's good though.

[gabe]

you are correct in that it makes your decisions easier but it's still a -ev bet.

its not -EV

[Lukie]

there's a thread about this hand on 2p2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1

my favorite quote:

This is one of the worst played hands ive read in a while. Your bud bet like a pussy on the flop, so an ace may call. Then when he decides to check call the guy down and let him bluff the ace why in the world would he bet the river? Only a winner will call and he bet so big it wont slow down an ace and it will scare away a bluff. Your buddy is horrible and you should discontinue the friendship now.

[johnny_fish]

g1u: and not many people are capable of bluff pushing there

So you could confidently c/f to a push right?

Why are you so worried about a bluff push?

I feel your bet might be +EV if you read him very well (high probability of hands you beat that will push). Maybe throw some math in to convince us?

[gabe]

g1u: and not many people are capable of bluff pushing there

So you could confidently c/f to a push right?

i meant a push over a bet

as said in the 2p2 thread that ItDepends (im guessing) posted, the bet is definitely +ev, but it sacrifices some more +ev to avoid tough spots.

[Lukie]

as said in the 2p2 thread that ItDepends (im guessing) posted, the bet is definitely +ev, but it sacrifices some more +ev to avoid tough spots.

...in other words, checking is the better play.

please correct me if I mis-interpreted that.

[gabe]

checking might cause me to make a mistake. think of the reverse implied odds.

[SmackinYaUp]

Checking might cause him to make a mistake. Betting lets him play it perfectly.

[STIdrivr]

I dont think this guy likes your river line.

Given the line, betting the river is just blatently wrong. I think I can say that with confidence.

If you have a read and know you are ahead, let him bluff. Check call if that is the case.

Betting $300 on the river does nothing but spews away money to AX or better and gets them to fold a bluff that would have happened had you checked.

It's a -EV blocking bet from a scared player. Resist temptations.

[gabe]

most of the people in that thread are idiots

the bet is definitely not -ev

[SmackinYaUp]

gabe, i don't get this one at all. im definitely going to be humble because you have moved a lot farther than i have in the poker world so far, but i don't see how this is +ev. it lets weak hands off the hook and it gets looked up by stronger hands. its not a bluff and its not a value bet but yet its not a good blocking bet becuase of the way you played the hand so far. what makes it +ev? also, whats wrong with check/calling a decent amound and check/folding if its too expensive? if you get bluffed off a pair of queens on an ace high board to an allin river bet, who cares? catch that lag next time.

[gabe]

"it lets weak hands off the hook and it gets looked up by stronger hands."
i think his range is pretty much some pocket pair less than mine. 85% of them are folding, 15% of them are pushing. the bet will work 85% of the time.

now that i know opponent is captzeebo i think checkfold is best idea because he probably thinks im some random fish who is not folding AK here

[dsaxton]

Betting is -EV, and checking is -EV, therefore you should open fold.

[siknd]

i know this is late...

wy cant we talk about check-raising the turn? if we are making all the assumptions about the ace not helping=we have the best hand then i think that 650 is better spent on the turn = to a thou. if he IS drawing to clubs this is the only chance we have to charge him while his hand still has value etc. just a thot.