Flopped flush facing turn minraise

[freechus9]

Villain is 17/4 and usually shows down solid hands..

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($1.80)
MP3 ($3.85)
CO ($8.80)
Button ($4.75)
SB ($13.45)
Hero ($10)
UTG ($3)
UTG+1 ($10.65)
MP1 ($3.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 6.
UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 3 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.50) 4, J, Q (5 players)
SB bets $0.3, Hero raises to $1.25, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, SB calls $0.95.

Turn: ($3) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB raises to $4, Hero...

[jackvance]

allin

[a500lbgorilla]

allin

wtf? this is two one word posts from you and they both found themselves in the wrong threads.

jackvance, im gonna come right out and say it. Clean up your act buddy. You're not helping anyone.

In this hand, i go into an immediate call down mode. Hes either pulling an elaborate bluff, or has you smoked. See if you can get there cheap.

[mxiu]

c/c all the way

[Miffed22001]

does anyone smell QJ here?
Id call this down for sure, but i guess on stars in particular you have to give opp credit for a good hand and not some shit here.
FLopped flush over flush is probable i guess but shouldnt we be losing a stack to that?

[samsonite2100]

1) You don't have to give anyone credit at .05/.1, anywhere. You think there's a bunch of evil geniuses hanging out at the Stars $10 tables?

2) flopped flush over flopped flush is technically very improbable here. This could be two pair/set/TP/overpairs, etc. I'd be looking to felt this, no diggity.

[MrSmiley23]

Yeup im thinking 2 pair or set here too, raise on flop might have got him thinking you got AQ, the pots already $9 it costs you $2 to call (which would leave you with only $4.5 left) i think your better off just pushing here because even if he does have the flush your still probably gonna call your remaining $4.5 to win that $15.5 pot, but if he doenst have flush @ least you have your money in with the best hand regardless what hits on river[/code]

[SonOfAkira]

1) You don't have to give anyone credit at .05/.1, anywhere. You think there's a bunch of evil geniuses hanging out at the Stars $10 tables?

2) flopped flush over flopped flush is technically very improbable here. This could be two pair/set/TP/overpairs, etc. I'd be looking to felt this, no diggity.

Freechus is an evil genius, so...

Seriously, I agree with the analysis, though I'd venture a guess that assuming all low stakes players are imbecelic, usually by other low stakes players, is what keeps low stakes players continuing to play low stakes.
We've all heard it, but someone has to kill the game and move up, no? So why should it be the villain?

[samsonite2100]

I'm not saying all low-stakes players are idiots, but I am saying IMO it's substantially -EV over the long run for Hero to sweat hands like this when the average player at this level plays TPGK like the immortal nuts.

[Lukie]

c/c all the way

We are facing a bet on the flop and we have position on the turn.

[Lukie]

Villain is 17/4 and usually shows down solid hands..

Any other reads then this? Truthfully I don't know how I'd play this at this level, but guys like this usually just don't play hands like this that don't have us drawing dead. Like I'd expect a guy like this to turn over an over-flush the vast majority of the time, given the action.

I'd probably call and call a push on the river because I'm a fish, but against this guy I think it's probably best to just fold. If I thought he was capable of playing a set/2 pr like this, that obviously changes.

[freechus9]

Villain is 17/4 and usually shows down solid hands..

Any other reads then this? Truthfully I don't know how I'd play this at this level, but guys like this usually just don't play hands like this that don't have us drawing dead. Like I'd expect a guy like this to turn over an over-flush the vast majority of the time, given the action.

I'd probably call and call a push on the river because I'm a fish, but against this guy I think it's probably best to just fold. If I thought he was capable of playing a set/2 pr like this, that obviously changes.

I felt this a little bit too. I didn't have any real reads, but I know he folded to my PFRs often and showed down big pairs or AK/AQ almost all the time.

[Renton]

call and fold to any meaningful river bet.

[jackvance]

wtf? this is two one word posts from you and they both found themselves in the wrong threads.

I stand by them.

jackvance, im gonna come right out and say it. Clean up your act buddy. You're not helping anyone.

huh?

In this hand, i go into an immediate call down mode. Hes either pulling an elaborate bluff, or has you smoked. See if you can get there cheap.

Let me explain then. This is 10NL. Some people there will always think you have the best hand, ie the flush.. but others will always think you *don't* have it. On 10NL, it's +EV to play for stacks with a flopped baby flush. They play their 2p/set/straight for stacks here often enough to make good money.

If you don't play for stacks in situations like this at 10NL, your winrate is gonna suck. At 100NL and above, it would be a whole different story obviously.

If your standard reaction is to go into c/c mode here, you'll be ending the day with a 5-10 ptBB/100 or something. If you play for stacks here, and yes he might have an overflush this time, but at the end of the day you'll have played at 20 ptBB/100 or more.

[a500lbgorilla]

does anyone smell QJ here?
Id call this down for sure, but i guess on stars in particular you have to give opp credit for a good hand and not some shit here.
FLopped flush over flush is probable i guess but shouldnt we be losing a stack to that?

and a set could be doing this to maybe try to get you to slow down. Lucky for him, it's gonna happen.

[a500lbgorilla]

wtf? this is two one word posts from you and they both found themselves in the wrong threads.

I stand by them.

jackvance, im gonna come right out and say it. Clean up your act buddy. You're not helping anyone.

huh?

In this hand, i go into an immediate call down mode. Hes either pulling an elaborate bluff, or has you smoked. See if you can get there cheap.

Let me explain then. This is 10NL. Some people there will always think you have the best hand, ie the flush.. but others will always think you *don't* have it. On 10NL, it's +EV to play for stacks with a flopped baby flush. They play their 2p/set/straight for stacks here often enough to make good money.

If you don't play for stacks in situations like this at 10NL, your winrate is gonna suck. At 100NL and above, it would be a whole different story obviously.

If your standard reaction is to go into c/c mode here, you'll be ending the day with a 5-10 ptBB/100 or something. If you play for stacks here, and yes he might have an overflush this time, but at the end of the day you'll have played at 20 ptBB/100 or more.

i'd play for stacks with a baby flush if he doesnt bet/call, check/raise. This is about the only line that is either idiot OR slowplayed flush.

If he bet/calls, bets I'm raising him pot and not slowing down. If he bet/call, check/calls, I'm again trying to get it all in there. But even at 10 nl, there are warning signs that you are beat.

[jackvance]

When I flop a flush and the board doesn't pair.. at 10NL I don't really care about the warning signs. He will do this with 2p/set often enough to make it +EV.. or a "test raise", although that doesn't seem too likely. I think he has a hand here, which is more often than not one that I beat. At 10NL I find I make the most profit if I just ignore whatever idiot things they're trying to pull (unless I have them pegged as a total nit) and just get it all in there whenever there are very few or only improbable hands that beat me.

This could very well be QJ (or 44) who thinks you have Ad or something and gains confidence on the turn when it's not another diamond. I've seen that sorta stuff often enough..

[Lukie]

call and fold to any meaningful river bet.

On the river, there will be $11 in the pot with slightly under $5 behind.

are u serious?

[Lukie]

wtf? this is two one word posts from you and they both found themselves in the wrong threads.

I stand by them.

jackvance, im gonna come right out and say it. Clean up your act buddy. You're not helping anyone.

huh?

In this hand, i go into an immediate call down mode. Hes either pulling an elaborate bluff, or has you smoked. See if you can get there cheap.

Let me explain then. This is 10NL. Some people there will always think you have the best hand, ie the flush.. but others will always think you *don't* have it. On 10NL, it's +EV to play for stacks with a flopped baby flush. They play their 2p/set/straight for stacks here often enough to make good money.

If you don't play for stacks in situations like this at 10NL, your winrate is gonna suck. At 100NL and above, it would be a whole different story obviously.

If your standard reaction is to go into c/c mode here, you'll be ending the day with a 5-10 ptBB/100 or something. If you play for stacks here, and yes he might have an overflush this time, but at the end of the day you'll have played at 20 ptBB/100 or more.

I don't think a '17/4 villain that usually shows down solid hands' is your prototypical NL10 player. We have less then a 3rd of a stack invested, showing enormous strength on a scary board, and we're getting played back at by an NL10 nit. If you can't at least see the argument for dumping this, then my feeling is that you will be stuck at this level for a very long time.

[Lukie]

fwiw I usually push here against someone with any degree of liveliness and get insta-called by the bigger flush so take my advice with a grain of salt I guess.....

[jackvance]

I don't think a '17/4 villain that usually shows down solid hands' is your prototypical NL10 player. We have less then a 3rd of a stack invested, showing enormous strength on a scary board, and we're getting played back at by an NL10 nit. If you can't at least see the argument for dumping this, then my feeling is that you will be stuck at this level for a very long time.

Ofcourse I can see the argument, but I'm not so sure how much his preflop nittyness reflects on his postflop play. If he doesn't believe you have flopped the flush, he could be doing this with overpair, 2 pair or a set. Hell, maybe even one pair and the ace of diamonds, although that is unlikely. In a real situation, ie if I was there, I'd try to estimate how likely it is he doesn't believe I have the flush.. or how long it's been since he has been active (as he could be getting impatient waiting for the nuts all the time) ... but I can't do that here, so I just explain my standard approach.

And fwiw, I'm indeed kinda stuck at 10NL, but that is because I keep needing to cash out b/c I need money in real life - and recently spreading out my BR. I've cashed out over $1k in the past 3 months, mostly made at 10NL. You can say all you want that I'm far from an exemplary player, my BR management sucks or that I don't know what the higher limits are like.. but if there's one thing I know then it's how to beat the lower limits, lol.. it sucks that I constantly need the money that I make in poker, but that's just how it is.. it is supporting me atm until I graduate and can get a job.

[Renton]

call and fold to any meaningful river bet.

On the river, there will be $11 in the pot with slightly under $5 behind.

are u serious?

remember this is 10nl. 5 dollars is 1/2 a stack.