Discussion: ttanaka's Casino Bonuses Journal

[Xianti]

Comments on http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24230

[Rabid Dog]

ttanaka,

Great explanation. I have been thinking about doing this but was confused about the wr. To me they seemed high and I thought they would be hard to reach. Your explanation is really clear. I was always afraid to play blackjack for some reason, even though I know how to play it, I wasnt sure how the casino's did it. Plus I have never used charts before so figured that would be intimidating. How do you know how many decks they deal with? I know theres different charts for however many decks they use.

I will be following this thread and wish you lots of luck with your venture.

[ttanaka]

I'm glad that helped, yeah I was kinda confused going in too, so I asked customer service a lot of questions and took my time. StarLuck uses 8 decks and they re-shuffle after only 20%, so there aren't any card counting angles or anything. I use the FTR chart which is based on Vegas rules 6-deck shoe. Actually, I don't even use a chart since I've known basic strategy for over a decade, but that chart is how I play.

Take a $100 out of your poker bankroll and follow me, it should be fun and I'll bet we end up with more money at the end!

[Rabid Dog]

Its sure worth a try. Right now Im waiting on a cashout from Fortune poker and my Bet365 bonus to show up. Speaking of Bet365, they only offer one free withdrawal a month, should I take the $100 I will have in the poker room there and play it in the casino before I pull it out and go somewhere else with it? edit: Forget I asked this. I looked and their casino requires a $200 initial deposit. I would have to wait for my Fortune cashout to complete before I have that.

Also as far as charts go. What about using the wizard of odds charts, there's been alot of good referal to them.

Also if Starlucks uses an 8 deck set how did you come up with using a 6 deck chart? Did the 20% shuffle have anything to do with it and is it that important to factor in (the % shuffle)?

[Rabid Dog]

I will say this, if I can clear a $100 bonus in a couple hours playing blackjack, that beats the crap out of the 4 days I spent clearing the Bet365 bonus because my bankroll wasnt big enough for 100nl.

Is there a bankroll requirment for casino whoring? Or is $100 a good starting point.

[Cocco_Bill]

Betting small doing these bonuses does not earn you any EV, its just a waste of time.

I like to bet $10 per hand on withdrawable bonuses. Sticky bonuses are a bit different though.

I did a 300% to $300 sticky bonus yesterday, I started off betting $100 per hand and was one hand away from busting before getting up to $600, I then made a $300 bet and won leaving me with $600 of withdrawable balance. This took about 10 mins to play.

[ttanaka]

Can you explain the strategy behind the sticky bonuses? The sticky bonuses are where you can wager it but never withdraw it, correct?

[Rabid Dog]

Im pretty sure a sticky bonus is one you cant withdraw ever. But you can withdraw whatever winnings you make off the sticky bonus after the WR have been met. I think you can keep going back and playing off that sticky bonus until you loose it also.

At least thats how I interpreted it when I read about them.

[Rabid Dog]

Take a $100 out of your poker bankroll and follow me, it should be fun and I'll bet we end up with more money at the end!

As soon as my cashout from Fortune shows up in my neteller account, Im going to follow you around. As long as it doesnt bother you that Im shadowing your whores. Maybe we can both turn our initial $100 into some good money by the end. Might be up to 2 more days before it shows up though.

[ensign_lee]

Can you explain the strategy behind the sticky bonuses? The sticky bonuses are where you can wager it but never withdraw it, correct?

Here's the strategy regarding sticky bonuses:

Let's take Golden Palace's offer, for instance. 300%, sticky.

So you put in $100, get $300 as a sticky bonus, with 4x wagering requirements for the bonus + deposit. That means you'll need to wager $1600.

The very first hand, put your entire balance on the line ($400). If you win, great! Now you have $800, but remember that $300 of that is sticky, so you really only have $500. You now essentially have $400 in bonus ($500-$100 initial deposit) that you need to wager $1200 (3x depost + bonus) for. Just wager normally from here on out.

The catch is that if you lose your first hand, you're done: on to the next bonus. Sticky bonuses are inherently risky, but are +EV.

[ensign_lee]

Did that make sense ttanaka?

[ttanaka]

Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand?

[Cocco_Bill]

Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand?

Yes you can, ensign Lee just described one way of doing it. You should make big bets so that you will either reach your goal or bust out fast. One drawback with betting your whole balance on the first hand is that the house edge is bigger because you won't be able to double or split your hand.

[Rabid Dog]

What would be wrong with just betting the same way as you do a non sticky? Guess Im alittle confused on this.

[Demiparadigm]

Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand?

Your greatest EV (or rather least negative) comes from betting the most you can at once.

You aren't trying to lose the least like you are with the other bonuses. You need to take advantage of the WHOLE sticky bonus to try to make the most.

Think of a roulette game... What is the best way to ensure a profit for the night?
By only making one bet, since the house edge has more time to affect you the more trials it gets.

Now with the sticky bonuses, losses come from your "real money" first, since you can never withdraw the bonus.

So if you bet $100 and lose, you just lost $100.
If you bet $400 and lose, you just lost $100.

[Cocco_Bill]

So if you bet $100 and lose, you just lost $100.

Umm no..

[Rabid Dog]

So basically stay away from sticky's till you have more of a bankroll built incase you loose that first hand big bet.

[Cocco_Bill]

You lose your $100 when you bust period.

I lost my fiirst two $100 bets yesterday and ended up with $900 ($600 withdrawable).

[ttanaka]

So, let's say I have $400 total, $100 deposited and $300 sticky bonus. Maybe my approach should be to bet $200/hand. That way, I can double if need be on that first hand.

If I win, I'll have $600, $300 of which is withdrawable (once I reach the wagering requirement) - so if I win, then maybe I play low stakes until I reach the wagering requirement and then run.

If I lose, I'll have $200. Then, I guess I could make $100 bets, until I reach $400 again or go broke. Once I reach $400, then goto line 10.

How does that sound for a gameplan?

Or, bet it all once, and if I win, then just try to satisfy the wagering requirement and run?

Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the bonus so I can withdraw something?

Which gameplan do you guys think I should try?

[Cocco_Bill]

?

Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the bonus so I can withdraw something?

You should never quit before you reach your goal! Do you want to profit $200, $400 or more? Whatever you decide to set as a goal you will have to play until you reach it or bust. The small wagering requirement is not the problem here, it can be completed with small bets once you reach that goal.

[Rabid Dog]

ttanaka,

I'm sure you have seen Salsa's blog on casino whoring. It looks pretty good and explains sticky's some. He has them listed as the last casino's to whore. I dont know if this is by preference or just where they fell when he was listing them. I have the site bookmarked for when I was wanting to give casino's a try. Of course the blog was done in August, so I dont know if its still considered up to date.

http://salsa4ever.blogspot.com/

[ttanaka]

Yeah, I've checked it out, I plan on completing StarLuck and PlanetLuck first. These stickies will be coming up soon though, so I thought I'd prepare myself.

[eeeee]

Comment on wager tracking at Starluck / Planetluck --

Open the Window's Calculator to count, or use the Player's Club points (.1 pt per $1 wagered). The Luck's point counters lag by a day, so they are not super useful. The point lag also prevents one from withdrawing the same day wagering is completed.

Other methods to count wagers -- hand counter, deck of cards, pencil and paper, paper clips -- well you get it.

[Demiparadigm]

?

Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the bonus so I can withdraw something?

You should never quit before you reach your goal! Do you want to profit $200, $400 or more? Whatever you decide to set as a goal you will have to play until you reach it or bust. The small wagering requirement is not the problem here, it can be completed with small bets once you reach that goal.

Can you give a single mathematical reason why there would be higher expected value from continuing to play a negative expected value game once your wagering requirement is met, just to reach some arbitrary "goal"?
I don't actually play blackjack online, so I admit I am not 100% versed in the effects of a sticky bonus.


Second, doubling down NEVER increases your chances of winning. It in fact ALWAYS decreases your chance of winning. However, the expected value that you gain by doubling your bet is greater than what you gain in winrate by simply hitting. This is why many casinos will usually let you "double for less" but will not let you split for less.
Splitting is slightly different in that it allows you to win more or lose less. Using the example of AA and 88. 2 aces is obviously better than a 12, with 88, you will still often lose with 2 8s, but less often than when you have 16.

Third (to answer a different question) it doesn't much matter what chart you use to play blackjack. Charts are mathematically proven, and with the exception of some kind of typo, they will be the same for games with the same rules. Also the difference between 6 and 8 decks is barely enough to raise the house odds, but not enough to make any changes to basic strategy.

[Cocco_Bill]

Alright, lets say you are done with your wagering requirement and end up with $400 which is the same as you started off with. Now you have the choice to cash out $100 or wager it all on one bet to hit $800 and then have $500 withdrawable balance. Clearly +EV regardless of if you are done with the wagering requirement. Likewise if you get to say $600 you can either withdraw $300 or bet it all for a $600 gain(almost 2-1 odds) again clearly +EV regardless of wagering requirements. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WAGER THE CASINOS MONEY AFTER WAGERING REQUIREMENTS ARE MET WHICH MAKES IT +EV

Generally a high goal will increase the EV of the bonus, but it will also naturally increase the risk of busting.

[eeeee]

Alright, lets say you are done with your wagering requirement and end up with $400 which is the same as you started off with. Now you have the choice to cash out $100 or wager it all on one bet to hit $800 and then have $500 withdrawable balance. Clearly +EV regardless of if you are done with the wagering requirement. Likewise if you get to say $600 you can either withdraw $300 or bet it all for a $600 gain(almost 2-1 odds) again clearly +EV regardless of wagering requirements. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO WAGER THE CASINOS MONEY AFTER WAGERING REQUIREMENTS ARE MET WHICH MAKES IT +EV

Generally a high goal will increase the EV of the bonus, but it will also naturally increase the risk of busting.

Let me phrase this a different way..... since you are playing a sticky, and can't get the bonus out [that's what we're talking about here, right?] you plan to wager $100-valued hand to either get 1) nothing or 2) $500-valued w/d. That's a good deal.
BUT the generally acccepted practice is to double up first, then work the WR, but I guess your one bet decision is still good if your WR brings you back down to your starting cash. The up-up side is that since you've completed the WR, you can move to a more 50/50-event game for your last big-bet, like craps or Euro Roulette.

[Rabid Dog]

Thanks ttanaka, here is how I did.

I finished the Starluck bonus today. Took about 2 hours playing the multi-player table at $2 a bet. Highest I got while playing was just over $250, the lowest was around $76 and this was in the second hour, so I was sweating it. Played strickly by the wizard of odds chart 100%. The server stalled on me 3 times right after I made my opening bets due to congestion traffic on the server. So thats $18 of bets I didnt get to make choices on. I contacted CS about the problem and although they were very nice they wouldnt add it back into my account. They said the server showed the games as completed. So outside of the software problem it was a good experience. I did question some of the double downs the chart said to play but I played them anyhow. If I had to guess on my session the double downs were -EV. Thats not to say they wouldnt have been +EV another time though.

Anyhow here's how I did. Cleared the bonus with my $100 investment still intact. Add to that $42.50 in bonus cleared for a total of $142.50 overall. I decided to go and play some extra so it wouldnt look like I was just there whoring. This time I only played $1 bets still on the multi-table. I told myself if I got down to $130 I would stop. Finished at $150 and decided not to push my luck. Next up Planetluck, but I have to wait the 24 hours for the bonus to officially clear to cash out.

Invested $100. Finished with $150 for a total profit of $50.

Starlucks $50

[Rabid Dog]

Good luck at Planetluck. I hope you have good success there.

[ttanaka]

Rabid,

Congrats on the $50. Good luck over at PlanetLuck, I'll update my post as soon as I'm done over there.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I just did the sticky bonuses at Golden Palace and Grand Online.

Golden Palace: -$100
Grand Online: +$763.50

Total: +$663.50 in 20 minutes.

[ttanaka]

Wow, sweet. As soon as I'm done with these gimmies, I'll try a sticky one. I thought about it and believe betting it all on the first best is the best utilization of that sticky bonus. I think that's the strategy I'll use.

[Rabid Dog]

I just did the sticky bonuses at Golden Palace and Grand Online.

Golden Palace: -$100
Grand Online: +$763.50

Total: +$663.50 in 20 minutes.

Thats awsome. Hopefully one day I can report something of this magnitude. Congratulations.

[Rabid Dog]

Sorry you didnt do as good at planetluck. Congratulations on comming out ahead though. It looks like we flip flopped on how we did at both casino's. I just finished over there and man is blackjack an emotional rollercoaster. I played the mult player at $2 a bet, 3 hands at a time, just like I did at Starluck. My experience was alittle better at Planetluck than it was at Starluck. I deposited $100 and got the $100 bonus. I started out winning, then loosing down to around $108 and then built it back up to $212. I never waivered from the $2 bets. It took me about 2 hours, I kept count using tick marks on a piece of paper. 10 rows of 80. I did have the same problems with the software that I had at Starluck, just not as many times. I have to wait the 24 hours before I can cash out I guess, and then it should show up within a day, just like Starluck did.

I started with a bankroll of $100 for this. After Starluck bonus ($50 cleared) and Planetluck bonus ($120.11 cleared) my casino bankroll is $270.11 including my original $100 investment.

ttanaka, any idea where to going next, that would be similar to the two we've already done?

edit: Was bored and got greedy so went back and played multi table $1 bets 3 handed. For some reason when I signed back in I had $213.11 instead of the $212 I though I had. Anyhow, played a few hands and when I hit $220.11 I cashed out. I have no idea where that extra $1.11 came from.

[ttanaka]

Ok, I'm going to Grand Online Casino, they have a 200% initial deposit bonus, so I'm taking $100, and will have $300 to wager. And then, I think I'm going to bet it all on one hand of blackjack...

[Rabid Dog]

So this is a sticky bonus then right? I dont think Im quite ready for that yet. Good luck, hope you hit big. I'm working on the Bet365 December poker bonus right now. Didnt start off to good, lost 20 while three tabling. Dont think Im ready for 3 tabling full ring poker yet either. Might just stick to 2 tabling for the bonus.

[Rabid Dog]

ttanaka, make sure to check if they still give the Neteller $75 bonus like its listed in Salsa's blog.

[ttanaka]

Rabid, they did give me a $75 Neteller bonus. I've updated my thread.

[Rabid Dog]

Thats great ttanaka. Sounds like that will definetly be the first sticky I try. I should have the Bet365 December poker bonus finished up sometime tonight or tomorrrow. I'm thinking about moving my money over to their casino then and giving the casino bonus a shot before I try another casino. Just makes since for me to try to grab 2 bonuses at the same time Im there, since they only allow one free cashout a month.

Congrats on the sticky bonus, and that extra free $75 for using Neteller looks like a sweet deal.

[Rabid Dog]

I got a free $5 from Starluck today. WR was I had to wager at least what the credit was one time through. Turned the $5 into $35 when I decided to stop and withdraw. Just waiting on the 24 hour peroid to clear now.

I also cleared the Bet365 December poker bonus of $100 plus made an extra $40 on top of that. Just waiting for the bonus to be added to my account now so I can move over and do the casino bonus. Its getting close to 2 days since I have cleared this.

edit: Bet365 wouldnt count my 522 raked hands because I played them at the .25/.50 nl tables. So I need to strike the December bonus for now. I think Im just going to head over and do the casino here first and then decide if I want to play at the .50/1 nl tables to clear the December bonus. I've never played at that level before.


So that gives me now:

Start of $100
Starlucks $50+$35=$85
Planetluck $120
Total $305 (includes initial starting investment)

[Eric]

I decided to give this a try. Last night I signed up at Starluck and today I finished clearing the bonus. I even made an additional profit on top of the bonus so it was a lot of fun.

The chat operator said now that I cleared the bonus I'll be able to cashout within 24 hours.

Clearing the bonus was really easy. Like Tyson said, it only took about 90 minutes of playing time(playing 3 hands at once and betting $2 per hand).

[Rabid Dog]

Congratulations Eric

[Eric]

Thanks Rabid Dog.

Played strickly by the wizard of odds chart 100%. The server stalled on me 3 times right after I made my opening bets due to congestion traffic on the server. So thats $18 of bets I didnt get to make choices on.

I know what you mean about the disconnects. It happened to me 3 times also but it didn't factor into my profit in the big picture. In fact one of the times I'm pretty sure the dealer busted because I checked the cashier afterwards and I was actually up $6 (3 $2 bets). The disconnects should not stop folks from playing for this great bonus opportunity. I'm really glad that I did this, it was a lot of fun to get the blackjack part of my brain working again. Once I got warmed up I had the basic strategy chart memorized again 100%.

[Rabid Dog]

Eric, you should go hit Planetluck now. Its a great bonus just like Starlucks.

[satan1974]

Golden Palace: -$100
Grand Online: +$763.50
Total: +$663.50 in 20 minutes.

Just before everybody rushes out and thinks this is a dead cert/easy money. I put $100 on both. I did a full amount bet on both sites on the first hand. Dealer got blackjack on both, and I lost $200 in 3 minutes.

[Eric]

Eric, you should go hit Planetluck now. Its a great bonus just like Starlucks.

Maybe I'll check them out next. My Neteller cashout went through with Starluck so here is where I'm at now:
Starluck Completed (+$181).
Starting Bankroll: $100
Current Bankroll: $281
I would have been happy just taking the $100 but in wagering $1600 to clear it I got some good hands that made me an extra $81.

[EasyT]

I just finished over there and man is blackjack an emotional rollercoaster.

Rabid Dog -

You can't let it be an emotional rollercoaster. Put a piece of tape over your screen where your balance is. Or better yet, play poker in another window at the same time. Make your play based on the WoOdds chart, and go back to poker...don't even look at the results. If you get mad/happy/mad/happy at blackjack, you will eventually suffer a "Casino Tilt" where you get pissed off and wager your whole deposit on a non-sticky bonus (like I did...I'm a jackass).

BJ is not a skill-game. You make the best available decisions, and then the cards fall. Try to stay emotionally un-invested.

EasyT.

[Rabid Dog]

LOL EasyT, I didnt really mean that in a bad way. Im a real even keel kinda guy, its really really hard to get me rattled, especially emotionally rattled. I've been married 25 years and if she cant do it, blackjack surely wont

Maybe I shouldnt have used the word emotional. Maybe I should have just said playing blackjack for 2 hours reminded me of riding a rollercoaster. You go up, you go down, and if your lucky enough you get out of your car at the top of the ride.

[Eric]

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to follow the basic strategy chart on every hand. I've seen friends of mind double down with a hard 8 against a 6 or double down with a hard 10 against a 10. These mistakes add up in the long run. Unless you're counting cards and you know the deck isn't balanced then you only double a hard 10 against 9 or less and you never double a hard 8.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Golden Palace: -$100
Grand Online: +$763.50
Total: +$663.50 in 20 minutes.

Just before everybody rushes out and thinks this is a dead cert/easy money. I put $100 on both. I did a full amount bet on both sites on the first hand. Dealer got blackjack on both, and I lost $200 in 3 minutes.

It's definatley not certain money. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as the first site they whore. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that is bothered by possibly losing $200 either. Regardless, these bonuses are +EV. You just have to be aware that due to the nature of sticky bonuses, the results are going to be much more volatile.

[Rabid Dog]

Ok, I just finished with the Bet365 casino bonus. Its a good bonus to chase, I wouldnt recomend playing this site for blackjack for fun though. Dealer gets an unbelievable amount of blackjacks and back to back blackjacks. And a totally unreal amount of multi card (4-5) 21's.

Anyhow here's how I did. It took me about 4 1/2 hours. I played strictly by the chart and played regular blackjack at the multihand table with $2 bets and nothing more, unless I doubled up that is. After 1/4 of the way through I was down close to $100 of the $400 I started with (my 200 and the bonus 200). Half way through I was down to $218 remaining. Then I started building back up. Got it back to $300 and hovered there for awhile. Reached $350 with around 30 minutes of play left and finished at $374. For a total bonus cleared of $174.00. Not bad at all, but I was getting worried after about 2 hours. Actually I finished with $170 but had $4 in comp.

Key is not to try and make it all back in a few big hands, I just kept grinding it out with nothing but $2 bets.

Now I have to decide if I want to go try the December bonus at the .50/1 nl tables.

Start of $100
Starlucks $50+$35=$85
PlanetLuck $120
Bet365 casino $174
Total $479 (includes initial starting investment)

[ttanaka]

I joined Golden Palace casino. This one is pretty cool, they give you a 300% initial deposit sticky bonus. So I deposited $100, emailed them, and received $400 to wager with. Now, here's where I got kinda confused. I decided to wager $200 on my first hand, so I could split or double if need be. Well, I won that first hand. Cool. I went up to $600. Well, now I didn't know what to do, so I played $5 a hand and started working off the wagering requirement. I've worked it off, and I have $565 in my account now. I could withdraw it all (they keep the $300 sticky), and I would get $265. So, $165 of profit. I'm not complaining.

Now the question is, should I leave and go to the next casino? Or should I bet it all and go for the double up?

[Rabid Dog]

Me, I be happy with the $165 profit. They cant take that away from you. I think if I was going to do it I would just bet the $165 profit and not my original $100 investment. That way if you loose you break even and take your $100 elsewhere.

Thats your choice to make though. Me, Im tight and would keep the $165 because its guaranteed.

By the way, congratulations on doing well here.

[ttanaka]

Thanks Rabid, yeah, I decided to run with it and take it elsewhere! That bankroll is building up pretty easily!

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Go big or go home!

[ttanaka]

This next one I will, I agree, I have the bankroll now to risk $100 bets.

Ok, I went to Carnival Casino, 100% initial deposit sticky bonus, bet $200 on my first hand:

Dealt K6. 16!?! goddamnit!

Dealer shows a 3. I stand.

Hole card is a 9. Hits a 2. Hits an ace. Hits a ten.

I win! I'll add this to my sticky post once I complete the wagering requirement.

[Rabid Dog]

Way to go ttanaka
Glad your doing well on those sticky's. Your making it sound extremely easy. And that bankroll is looking good also. I have to go knock out the Party Poker $100 bonus before I can do anything else. Just withdrew from Bet365 so I would have the 500 to put into Party. Heading there first thing in the morning. Since Im not working right now Im going to try and knock most if not all of it out tomorrow. But Im sure it will go into Saturday before I can finish 1000 hands.

I've downloaded the trial version of Poker Tracker and have been spending most of the day trying to figure out how to set it up. Not having much luck, but I havent read the help yet, thats the next stop.

[ttanaka]

Thanks Rabid - well, I definitely prefer poker to this casino blackjack long-term, and spending time on Poker Tracker is gonna do you well, so it's time well invested.

This casino whoring is fun, the money is easy, but really it's an exercise to complete my journal and an experiment to see how much I can make with little risk.

Anyway, investing some time into Poker Tracker is time well spent.

[Xianti]

I've downloaded the trial version of Poker Tracker and have been spending most of the day trying to figure out how to set it up. Not having much luck, but I havent read the help yet, thats the next stop.

Rabid, have you seen this?

http://poker-tracker.flopturnriver.c...er-tracker.php

[Rabid Dog]

ttanaka,

Im definitely going back to more casino's after I finish with the Party bonus. Its just that its a time sensitive bonus and I have to do it before Dec. 28. But I do like the speed at which the casino bonuses clear opposed to the poker bonuses. You can definitely make a better hourly rate if thats what your looking for. Not that I worry about the hourly rate over the cleared bonus amount. The end result is more important to me.

Xianti,

Thanks for that link. I have never seen it. I even did a search for poker tracker on the site and I think the search brought up every thread that had poker in it. You can imagine how many threads that was. Im looking over the link right now.

One question. I have never played at party on the computer I am using now. I bought the computer from another person who has played on party. Can I download their hand history to the trial version of poker tracker and use it. Not so much to rate how I have done, but to rate other players on party.

One thing I dont see is how to use the auto rate players tool. This is one thing Im fuzzy on. I would like it to be able to rank the players Im playing against so I know later how skilled they are, just incase I see them at other tables or on other days.

[Rabid Dog]

Finished the Party bonus (cleared the whole 100, plus a little extra made on top of that. Party bonus is not added into the casino bonuses total at bottom since its poker). So I decided to hit another casino. Decided to try Will Hills bonus. Didnt seem too bad. Deposit 80 and get 80, wager 2000 and receive your bonus. That seemed like a fair wr. The only thing I didnt like was you have to wait up to a couple weeks to receive a pin # before you can cash out. Although I did go ahead and try to cash out and was never asked for a pin #. Maybe it was because I was cashing back into my Neteller account that I deposited with. I dont know. Or maybe Will Hill doesnt require the pin but the rest of the Crypto's do. Or maybe I will get an email saying I have to wait for the pin to cash out. We will see. Anyhow below is my experience at Will Hill. It was not pretty. The software was fairly slow and I have a ton of disconnects from Will Hill's server. I mean a ton of disconnects. But the game always picked right back up where I left off. Now to my Brutalization from Will Hill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OUCH! I guess it was bound to happen at some point. Anyhow here's how it went. I deposited 80 and got the free 80 welcome bonus. Started out playing just $1 bets thinking this would help keep the variation to a minimum. Im not really all that worried about time since I dont have a real job right now so bonus hunting is what Im trying to focus on right now.

Anyhow $1 bets. Started playing Pontoon. Within 1 1/2 hours at $1 bets Im down $52 following the chart 100%. So I decide maybe Pontoon isnt the game to play. I switch to Blackjack, still sticking to the $1 bets. I play another 2 hours and Im back up to $150. So I stop for the night. Check my wr and find I still have 1567 more dollars of the original 2000 left to go to meet the wr.

Sit down the next day and decide to make $2 bets. By the way Im playing the multi hand table. Start off playing 5 hands at a time. First 2 rounds I loose all ten bets plus 2 doubles and one split out of those ten hands. So I switch to 3 handed and stay there the rest of the time. Still making $2 bets and 2 hours later Im down to $78 ($2 into my own money). So I check my wr counter and I still need to wager $333 more. So I decide to take a break.

Come back an hour later and sit down again. Still playing 3 handed at $2 a bet. After I sign on I notice Ive been credited with another $40 bonus, nice. Well I would have thought it was nice, lol. Anyhow to clear that bonus and the rest of my other bonus I had to wager another $1133 total. So now instead of sitting with $78 Im sitting at $118. Ok, $2 bets three handed. 45 minutes later I have my original $80 left and none of the bonus left. Still needing to wager $128 to try and salvage anything of the $120 bonus I was given. Another 30 minutes later and the wr's are complete and all I have left is $40 of my original $80 invested.

Close to 6 1/2 hours to try and clear this bonus at $2000 wr for $80 bonus then what looks like another $800 wr for the extra $40 they added. Im not sure if they give you a $40 bonus for 5 hours of play in the Casino like they do in the poker room, since I noticed this bonus after I had played for 5 1/2 hours. Or if I got the monthly bonus staked on top of my welcome bonus. Couldnt tell ya.

Notes: I played strictly by the chart. Discounting a couple mistakes I might have made but didnt see, (where maybe I might not have followed the chart but was not aware of it) Doubling up when told to and splitting when told. Im gonna just write this up to nothing is guaranteed, and this will happen from time to time. I did go ahead and cash out, when I did Will Hill said nothing about a pin # for cashing out back to my Neteller account. I didnt even see a place to put your pin #. So maybe the cashout will be successful, Im not sure.

Can any see anything I might have done wrong here? Or is this just one of those things that will happen from time to time.

Start of $100
Starlucks $50+$35=$85
PlanetLuck $120
Bet365 casino $174
Will Hill lost bonus plus $40 of my own money. Minus $40
Total $439 (includes initial starting investment)

[salsafreak]

Hi,

This is my first post here, so hi all ...
One thing i have to say is that this forum rocks, and have the feeling that people here have really the will to share experience with others ...

So 2 weeks ago i decided to give a try to casino whoring, taking all advice i found here.
So this where i am :
Planet luck +100 (5$/hand)
Starluck -17 (worse cards i ve ever had ... is it rigged? Dealer unbeatable) (2$/hand)
Then went at Casino on Net and oooohhh mistake i deposit via neteller ...
So I had to wager 5000$ ... oh my god ...
But finally, i manage to clear the WR with 2$/hand bet, tooks me 3 days playing session of 2/3 hours several times a day
I finally end up with +157 (bonus +extra 57)

So i am happy with that.
star +100
planet -17
CON +157
total +240 profit

About the pin code, I deposit at poker site they had the same pin code thing but after contacting support they told me that unless you want to cash out more than 500$ you don't need the pin code.

Now i want to keep on building my BR, this is a great way to do it, of course this is not risk free (that would be too easy), but it looks like we can have a good edge to do it.

My next casino, i don't know i am a little scared of using the sticky bonus and i was thinking of using another angle for theses bonuses. Tell me what you think.

you deposit 100, get 200 sticky, ok now i read that your approach is to bet it all and get lucky, if not you loose everything.
What if you use these 300 to meet the WR, using same strategy like 5$/hand.
Then once you meet the WR, see what you have left or extra and then bet all the bonus in 2,3,4, or 5 hands, keeping your deposit intact. Then if you get lucky you can withdraw a good amount if not u can still withdraw your 100$.
For me it looks like a safer way to clear the bonus, your thought?
Of course its time consuming, compare to the other bet it all method.

[Rabid Dog]

Im pretty sure that on sticky's, no matter how much you make and withdraw, that they deduct the sticky from your withdrawal before cashout.

So say if you have a 200 sticky and your 100 deposit for a total of 300. You make your 5 dollar bets and you end up with as an example 30 profit plus your original 100 for 130 total. Then you do what you mentioned about betting all of the bonus in 2,3,4 or 5 hands. If you bust out that 200 bonus and then try to withdraw your 130 I dont think it will happen if I understand sticky's right. That 130 would be considered part of the 200 sticky. So you would have to just keep going untill you either bust out or have something over the 200 sticky to cash out.

If Im wrong someone correct me.

[BoondockSaint]

Then went at Casino On Net and oooohhh mistake i deposit via neteller ... Sad
So I had to wager 5000$ ... oh my god ...
But finally, i manage to clear the WR with 2$/hand bet, tooks me 3 days playing session of 2/3 hours several times a day
I finally end up with +157 (Bonus +extra 57)

what in the world - 1st of all why would u deposit neteller knowing the 50x clearing - 2nd and probably the bigger mistake - why did you deposit 100 for a 200 max bonus? Did u not realize CON was 200 max?

[salsafreak]

Yeah i realize after the deposit that neteller was 50x instead of 20x, shame on me ...
So finally it was better that i only deposit 100 otherwise the wr would have been 10 000$ (arg)
And why i didnt deposit 200, just because i didnt want to risk too much money... because i don't have a big bankroll ..
But i'm working on it ...

[eeeee]

Im pretty sure that on sticky's, no matter how much you make and withdraw, that they deduct the sticky from your withdrawal before cashout.

So say if you have a 200 sticky and your 100 deposit for a total of 300. You make your 5 dollar bets and you end up with as an example 30 profit plus your original 100 for 130 total. Then you do what you mentioned about betting all of the bonus in 2,3,4 or 5 hands. If you bust out that 200 bonus and then try to withdraw your 130 I dont think it will happen if I understand sticky's right. That 130 would be considered part of the 200 sticky. So you would have to just keep going untill you either bust out or have something over the 200 sticky to cash out.

If Im wrong someone correct me.

You are generally correct. You could w/d the $130, then the $200 would disappear. The point of a sticky is to make a near-50/50 bet to turn $100 into $300. I think most of us understand there's not much point in risking $100 to make $130 on a 50/50 bet.
There are two type of stickies:
Type 1 Sticky --

• You play with your money then their money.
  Bet big until you reach the target (double your deposit? Double the working BR? You set the target.)
  Single large bet for roulette/baccarat/craps if legal. Martingale 1/7 bet if BJ only -- leaves room for doubling/splitting.
  If you reach your target (double?) you complete the WR with safe bets.
  You W/D your deposit and winnings and the bonus money disappears.

Type 2 Sticky --

• Bonus money is likely presented at a 'bonus acct', but you still play with your money then their money.
  Make safe bets until you complete the WR.
  W/D deposit and winnings -- bonus money remains
  Go back (after w/d clears) and bet big to double or bust with their bonus money. If you win, w/d. Rinse, repeat until bust.

[ttanaka]

So far, I don't think I've come across the Type 2 Sticky yet, I've always had the bonus come off the top on the first withdrawal.

Anyway, if you haven't already checked, I completed Casino Tropez for some good success (I won the first big bet hand!)

[Rabid Dog]

Congratulations ttanaka

[MAX]

I just read the terms at Carnival Casino....
It looks like you can deposit 300, get a 600 sticky match bonus, and play blackjack (for us dollars only). Am I missing something? Do you think the best strat for this is to play 3 $300 hands all at once to start? I assume you can't play 1 for $900. I have made $300 from the other sites and would be willing to do this one for the full amount, but don't really know the best strat.

[ttanaka]

hmm... interesting, I believe the max bet is $500 at Carnival Casino, so I'm not sure what the best strat is here. You definitely want to utilize as much of that bonus as possible, maybe 2 bets at $450? Look to double up and target $1,800, and then work off the wagering requirement? Not sure here...

[Mislac]

Has anyone withdrew from Carnival, Vegas Red, Tropez, or Del Rio yet?
If so which of these if any require any documents faxed? Thanks.

Great thread Ttanaka

[BoondockSaint]

I did del rio awhile back and i didnt need to give them any documents or ID of any kind

[ensign_lee]

I just read the terms at Carnival Casino....
It looks like you can deposit 300, get a 600 sticky match bonus, and play blackjack (for us dollars only). Am I missing something? Do you think the best strat for this is to play 3 $300 hands all at once to start? I assume you can't play 1 for $900. I have made $300 from the other sites and would be willing to do this one for the full amount, but don't really know the best strat.

pretty sure that Carnival won't let you play blackjack if you take full advantage of the bonus. Make sure to check the terms and conditions again first.

[ttanaka]

From Carnival Casino:

Using the player's deposit and Bonus funds to wager on Craps (all sorts Craps), Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), SicBo (all sorts of SicBo), Jacks of Better 4, and Aces and Faces 4 does not fulfill the player's obligations with regard to the minimum wagering requirements for $ and €.

Blackjack is all good baby!

[Rabid Dog]

Keep it up ttanaka, your making those sticky's look easy.

[MAX]

I THINK CARNIVAL HAS CHANGED THEIR TERMS:

Terms and Conditions of 100% First Deposit Bonus up to $200 (The Second Deposit Bonus of 50% up to $577 is listed below).

Please note that the only deposit that is eligible for this bonus is your first single deposit at the Casino.

Unless otherwise stated, this offer may not be combined with any other bonuses offered by Carnival Casino.


This Play Bonus will be given only once per household and/or per account.

Please note that in the interest of fair gaming: for $ and € you have to wager at least (8) eight times your bonus and deposit before making any cash outs, while for £ you have to wager at least (12) twelve times your bonus and deposit before making any cash outs. If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void.

For example:
Deposit 200 €/$ get 200 €/$ FREE - minimum
wager is 3,200 €/$
Deposit £200 get £200 FREE - minimum wager is £4,800

To be eligible for this bonus you must deposit a minimum of 20 €/£/$.

Carnival Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates.

Using the player's deposit and bonus funds to wager on Craps (all sorts of Craps) , Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Sic Bo (all sorts of Sic Bo), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack) and Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Jacks or Better (all sorts of Jacks or Better), Aces and Faces (all sorts of Aces and Faces), and Deuces Wild (all sorts of Deuces Wild) does not fulfill the player's obligations with regard to the minimum wagering requirements for £ $ and €.

-----------------------------------------------------
I never did this one. Let me know if anyone finds out that it is still worthwhile.