trips on the flop

[Random_Hero]

Should I have just folded this preflop?

who calls the all-in? He was quite losse.

PokerStars Game #6166489224: Tournament #31261726, $12+$1 Hold'em No Limit -
Level III (25/50) - 2006/09/04 - 11:48:15 (ET)
Table '31261726 1' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: RandomHero83 (2385 in chips)
Seat 2: Austin520 (1560 in chips)
Seat 3: OReilly7 (1175 in chips)
Seat 4: vstathop (665 in chips)
Seat 5: chaide71 (1690 in chips)
Seat 6: Iron6000 (1525 in chips)
Iron6000: posts small blind 25
RandomHero83: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RandomHero83 [Ah 4h]
Austin520: folds
OReilly7: folds
vstathop: raises 50 to 100
chaide71: folds
Iron6000: calls 75
RandomHero83: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [4d 5s 4s]
Iron6000: bets 50
RandomHero83: raises 100 to 150
vstathop: calls 150
Iron6000: calls 100
*** TURN *** [4d 5s 4s] [2h]
Iron6000: bets 50
RandomHero83: raises 350 to 400
vstathop: folds
Iron6000: raises 875 to 1275 and is all-in.

[ripjohngotti]

Easy call then. If you feel he has a straight flush draw and dont feel like 50/50 on the river for your entire stack then you could also opt to fold. But getting 2 to 1 on my money id call with no hesitation.

[fjuanl]

theres no way im folding to that push on the turn. your getting almost 3 to 1 on the call. even if he has a3 for some reason, any 5, 2 or A are outs anyway. i have a feeling you posted this because he had either 55 or 22

[taipan168]

I tend to just fold this preflop, I don't like playing A-rag OOP relative to a preflop raiser.

As played, I would raise a little more on the flop with the flush and straight draws out there. There is 350 in the pot when it gets to you, I make it 250 to go on the flop. Your 150 bet gave both opps odds to call if they were on either draw.

On the turn, no way I am getting away from the hand - if they had A3 you still have outs on the river, if they had 55 or 22 then I'm going broke.

fold preflop. why are you playing Ax suited witha raise and a caller in front of you at a large table??

[Random_Hero]

fold preflop. why are you playing Ax suited witha raise and a caller in front of you at a large table??

It was quite cheap to see the flop and I was big stack. I shoulda just folded but I was big stack and suppose I just wanted to see the flop!

As it happens the guy had pocket 5-5's.

[TLR]

no way I am folding this preflop.
Calling 50 into a 250 pot is worthwhile with almost any 2.

and I go broke here

[taipan168]

no way I am folding this preflop.
Calling 50 into a 250 pot is worthwhile with almost any 2.

That's because you're a good postflop player and can get away from a flop that comes A high...

[TLR]

no way I am folding this preflop.
Calling 50 into a 250 pot is worthwhile with almost any 2.

That's because you're a good postflop player and can get away from a flop that comes A high...

Still, you are getting 5:1 pot odds, folding here is a mistake.

Lets assume hero has 84s, do you think he should fold or call ?

[taipan168]

Still, you are getting 5:1 pot odds, folding here is a mistake.

Lets assume hero has 84s, do you think he should fold or call ?

I would fold 84s. Suited connectors and maybe one-gappers I would call, but not any two cards. I just don't think the implied odds are there. Say you call with T6o, the chance of flopping two pair is only 2.2% so to get the correct implied odds you have to get paid 50/0.022 = 2273 chips if you hit. Nobody here has that deep a stack even if they did stack off if you hit your two pair.

I guess there is the possibility of flopping trips, a straight or better but that's even less likely.

[TLR]

Still, you are getting 5:1 pot odds, folding here is a mistake.

Lets assume hero has 84s, do you think he should fold or call ?

I would fold 84s. Suited connectors and maybe one-gappers I would call, but not any two cards. I just don't think the implied odds are there. Say you call with T6o, the chance of flopping two pair is only 2.2% so to get the correct implied odds you have to get paid 50/0.022 = 2273 chips if you hit. Nobody here has that deep a stack even if they did stack off if you hit your two pair.

I guess there is the possibility of flopping trips, a straight or better but that's even less likely.

Some calculations:
With T6o
With 2 villians
Villian1 plays about top 10% of hands (Sklansky group 1-4)
Villian2 plays about top 18% of hands (Sklansky group 1-5)

Hero is 19.2% to win

If both villians only play group 1-4
Hero is 18.8% to win

so both calls are EV+

If both villians play only group 1-2 hands it is about even money call.

With the actual hand (A4s) even if both villian's range is extermly tight (AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AKs, AKo) it is still an EV+ call

All and all there is no reason to fold any hand, and definitly not A4s when you are offered 5:1 pot odds. However I agree with you that you have to be careful with a Axx flop, when xx<>4

[taipan168]

The issue is that your calcs assume you see all 5 cards without having to bet or call any bets on remaining streets. This is rarely likely to be the case. The question is, how often will you see a flop that you'll a) like and b) be willing to go to the felt with and c) be able to destack opps with? With T6o the only flops I really like are two pair, trips, 987 or better, do these come often enough and do you get paid often enough to make the call preflop worthwhile?

I just find it easier to fold these hands preflop because my postflop skills aren't Daniel Negreanu's. Plus in the case of the A4s hand, the preflop raise and calls makes it likely that there is likely to be at least one better ace out there.

EDIT: That said, if there are a lot of limpers at level 1 or 2, I'm in the SB, I will call with ATC provided I'm getting 10:1 or so.

[TLR]

you flop those hands pretty rarely, about 5% of the time.
so you need to make 1000 chips when you hit them to break even, I dont think it is unrealistic.
However there may also be other flops that are playable, for example Txx when both are low and it is checked around, 89J etc...

[baudib]

I think the preflop call is irrelevant here. Well, not totally irrelevant, but actually, I think the turn is an even easier call with the min-raise, which could mean he's simply donking an overpair.

A limp makes 55, 22, or 54 more likely. Away from the heat of the battle the donk bet after bet, big reraise on the flop and then a push is probably a good indication of the nuts but I still can't see laying this down.

[givememyleg]

Still, you are getting 5:1 pot odds, folding here is a mistake.

Lets assume hero has 84s, do you think he should fold or call ?

I would fold 84s. Suited connectors and maybe one-gappers I would call, but not any two cards. I just don't think the implied odds are there. Say you call with T6o, the chance of flopping two pair is only 2.2% so to get the correct implied odds you have to get paid 50/0.022 = 2273 chips if you hit. Nobody here has that deep a stack even if they did stack off if you hit your two pair.

I guess there is the possibility of flopping trips, a straight or better but that's even less likely.

You nit!!