88 super-shortie AI pre-flop

[zook]

I'm clueless here. Is calling the shortie's PFR bad? Is the flop bet terrible? Should I have bet again on the turn or river? Throw me a frickin bone here.

No stats on super-shortie, but MP2 is laggy, 39/11/27 over 150 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($50)
Hero ($49.75)
UTG+2 ($32.20)
MP1 ($50.15)
MP2 ($85.86)
MP3 ($5.90)
CO ($50.60)
Button ($45.70)
SB ($40.55)
BB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8, 8. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, MP2 calls $2, MP3 raises to $5.90 (All-In), 4 folds, Hero calls $3.90, MP2 calls $3.90.

Flop: ($18.45) 6, T, T (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $5, MP2 calls $5.

Turn: ($28.45) A (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: ($28.45) 7 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: $28.45

[Renton]

i raise to 10 and push mp2 out of the equation.

[Dr_Giggles]

Should have at least bet the river IMO. Seems like a busted f-draw.

[renegaderob1]

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

[Dr_Giggles]

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

Why would you have skipped a river bet, just curious.

[TerryToma]

Should have at least bet the river IMO. Seems like a busted f-draw.

why? If you think he has a busted F-draw, then let him bluff at the pot. He is less likely to bluff at it with shorty all-in already.

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

[zook]

i raise to 10 and push mp2 out of the equation.

Ok, that sounds better. As played what do you do post-flop? I can't come up with any strategy that really makes sense for this situation.

[zook]

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

Nice call Toma!

[Dr_Giggles]

He called $5 for a reason then checked the turn in position, that's weak enough for me to value bet a rag on the river, thats all I'm saying. This guy didn't end up bluffing the pot so a value bet might have been good for a couple bucks and my read couldn't have been that bad aye? To each their own, no biggie.

[TerryToma]

He called $5 for a reason then checked the turn in position, that's weak enough for me to value bet a rag on the river, thats all I'm saying. This guy didn't end up bluffing the pot so a value bet might have been good for a couple bucks and my read couldn't have been that bad aye? To each their own, no biggie.

this is a big part of poker. we all need to learn river bets. betting mediocre hands on the river is -ev oop. better hands call/raise. worse hands fold.

checking allows for bluffs/saves $.

in this case what hands that you beat call? what hands that you would lose to fold? important to think about.

[TerryToma]

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

Nice call Toma!

woohoo! i have been in this situation many times, thats how it always seems to end up! just getting edged out. of course if you would have repped the A on the flop he would have had AQ.

[Dr_Giggles]

" I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower"

A small PP will call a small bet, which is what you already said he probably had.

[drmcboy]

it is OK to give a free draw on sixth street.

[TerryToma]

" I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower"

A small PP will call a small bet, which is what you already said he probably had.

true.. cant have 66/77 as he would hvae a set.. 55-22 possible. but 99 very possible due to the fact he hung around with all the pre-flop action, and stuck it out post flop.

so with a pp, what bet would get him to fold?? the only reason i put him on 99 was because of his river check.. i still dont think we have enough info betting into the river on what he has............... just thinking out loud. many options, many are justifiable.

so betting the river is a good idea if you think you can push him off 99/jj... betting small is a good idea if you think they will call with 55-22.. checkign is a good idea if you are convinced of a busted flush draw, and call the riv bluff..

[Dr_Giggles]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't want him to fold...I just want to squeeze a couple more bucks outta this if possible.

I have no problems with your through process at all. This is good stuff, and why I post at many different forums, to exchange ideas and learn. I'm crashing, have a good night bro.

[TerryToma]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't want him to fold...I just want to squeeze a couple more bucks outta this if possible.

I have no problems with your through process at all. This is good stuff, and why I post at many different forums, to exchange ideas and learn. I'm crashing, have a good night bro.

im crashing too..
but value betting is -ev in this case.. only K7s will call you. perhaps even 22-55 will fold. better hands raise/call and you are out more $$. 99 calls.

and K7s doesnt call this preflop unles they are tarded.

[zook]

I'm still left with the question of whether I should have bet into the dry side pot on the flop. I know in tourneys it's usually a no-no because you want to eliminate the shorty, but what about in ring?

[relayer]

I'm still left with the question of whether I should have bet into the dry side pot on the flop. I know in tourneys it's usually a no-no because you want to eliminate the shorty, but what about in ring?

With hero's hand, I just check it down. I'd be curious to know what others' default play is as well...

[renegaderob1]

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

Why would you have skipped a river bet, just curious.

Mainly for the reasons TerryToma mentioned. There's a fine line between -EV and extracting value on rivers. Besides, if he calls my flop bet (which is much higher than hero's in this case), i'm most probably behind here and welcome a cheap showdown...

[zook]

Besides, if he calls my flop bet (which is much higher than hero's in this case), i'm most probably behind here and welcome a cheap showdown...

I'm curious why you would make a big bet into a dry side pot? You're conceivably playing for nothing but the chance to get beaten by shorty's better pair. It seems like all a big bet does is fold hands you beat and lose money to hands you don't. I tried to make a weak-looking bet for value and get marginal pairs or overcards to come along. I think betting into a dry side pot requires much different thinking, but I'm still fuzzy on what it should be.

[givememyleg]

Make dry side pots wet in ring.