I Sense Weakness

[Galapogos]

No specific reads other than he doesn't stand out as a rock or maniac. Good or bad?

Texas Hold'em $1-$1 NL (Real Money), #1,053,171,334
Table La Jolla, 26 Sep 2006 11:00 AM ET

Seat 1: da tman ($42.20 in chips)
Seat 2: iguiguanax ($37.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Minirokke ($8 in chips)
Seat 5: Akbar Aga ($122.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Galapogos [KC,QS] ($146.20 in chips)
Seat 7: dobiescobie ($38.50 in chips)
Seat 9: montrealphil ($56.70 in chips)
Seat 10: andgud ($129.60 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
Minirokke posts blind ($0.50), Akbar Aga posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
Galapogos calls $1, dobiescobie folds, montrealphil calls $1, andgud bets $2, da tman folds, iguiguanax folds, Minirokke folds, Akbar Aga folds, Galapogos bets $7, montrealphil folds, andgud calls $6.

FLOP [board cards 2S,2H,KS ]
Galapogos bets $10, andgud bets $30, Galapogos bets $128.20 and is all-in...

What do you think he could have to mini-raise with preflop and then reraise me 3x on a flop like that?

[cardsman1992]

Minraises PF have been an epidemic lately. I have seen it with normal "raising" hands. I could see it with anything from 88+ to AQ+ the way these guys at PR have been playing recently. I saw it done with KK several times last night alone.

That being said, you are ahead of a good part of his range, only behind AK, KK, and AA. I don't think a deuce is in his range. He probably flips TT.

[AHiltz]

I hate the limp UTG with that hand. Interesting reraise though.

If he has QQ, JJ, TT he doesn't call. AA, KK, and AK call and crush you.

He calls and flips AA, amirite?

[LimpinAintEZ]

your preflop re-raise says big hand to me - I see players re-raise like that preflop and it makes me nervous...enough that i'm not carrying on unless I hit the flop really nice - When he makes it $30 after you lead, I have to give him some credit there....Unless he is a guy who keeps doing that with Marginal hands (not indicated in reads) then im probably letting that go - I would put the guy on either AK or AA....I don't like the push - against a shorter stack go ahead, but the guy has almost as much as you and his line doesn't smell weak to me...

[zook]

A flop raise after you've represented AA with your limp/re-raise is weakness??? I put villain on AA/KK/AK. If he had AK he's probably folding, otherwise, gg.

I raise pre-flop. As played, dump to the flop raise.

[Galapogos]

Why would someone raise the minimum amount with AA-KK? I think his position is awful for it. Let alone AK. Like I said, this guys seemed quite standard, regular 4x raises and he hadn't done anything too awful yet. I find min-raises tend to mean SCs, medium PPs, or Axs. The only hand I'm afraid of from this guy is A2s.

What I'm hoping for here is fold another KQ (I've seen this miniraised enough to think it's an unlikely but possible holding) or get a call from a decent PP, like Cardsman suggested maybe 1010 or JJ. I had a pretty aggressive table image and had been caught on a few bluffs so JJ calling me down wouldn't have been too unlikely.

Does this sound like a decent line of thought or do you still think I'm too far behind more often than not, and why?

[zook]

Yeah, the range I put him on pre-flop is too tight I guess, I've just seen min-raises mean premium hands a lot pre-flop. It depends on the player though. Still, after you limp/re-raise pre-flop and lead the flop, villain has to put you on AK at the worst. That's why I'm folding to his flop raise.

[LimpinAintEZ]

the all in works evertime but 1 as they say - If your called, your crushed 95% of the time - Villain didn't min-raise - He 3x your flop bet and made it $30 after calling your preflop monster line - Could he do that with JJ, QQ? Maybe - but what are you accomplishing by pushing all in?

i agree that the preflop min-raise could be done with anything, but most solid players are not going to raise your flop bet there w/out a hand...KK? No, i don't think he's pushing you off with top boat but AK? Heck yeah -

[Halv]

I don't like it. He's not calling that push enough with QQ-, nor is he folding AA, and I don't think he folds AK enough either because your line just doesn't make sense (because if you have AA you want to keep AK in the pot).

I fold pre-limp at most tables.

[Fnord]

Pretty spew-tastic hand to play against an unknown. I'd just take a flop with him. He juiced the pot a little, defined his hand a bit, somehow kicked out the blinds and established a bit of an expectation that he's going to bet a very wide range on the flop. Great, KQo is a playable hand, lets play some poker.

[KoRnholio]

I don't like it. He's not calling that push enough with QQ-, nor is he folding AA, and I don't think he folds AK enough either because your line just doesn't make sense (because if you have AA you want to keep AK in the pot).

I fold pre-limp at most tables.

QFT. I think he has AK and will call you here. Most likely he's not a deep enough thinker to view your limp-raise as AA and find a fold.

[Galapogos]

I'm sure you guys are right, I must be too results oriented (he flipped over K10). I just couldn't see AK,KK,AA playing this passively preflop and then getting balls on the flop. If someone's going to slowplay those they call way more often than miniraise preflop. But then I guess that's the danger in playing like this with unknowns, they don't necessarily play the way you expect a regular to, and I just got lucky here.

[LimpinAintEZ]

the only thing i can't agree with Halv is the fold prelimp - I think you can get away with limping this enough to make it profitable...depends on the table, of course - But at a passive table where a lot of people are seeing flops, i would limp this plenty - KQ can hit a lot of flops pretty nicely...At the same time, the donks that I play with are playing KQ off like it's AK, and raising it like crazy, so consider the source -

I like that limp re-raise though - unless your doing it everyhand

[Galapogos]

I actually normally raise KQ 4x from any position but for some reason I only called in this hand. When I saw the weird min-raise from MP and everyone else folded I had to try and shove him out repping AA. Most of the time this is 66-JJ it seems. Then I hit the flop of course and rest is as we've discussed...

[Halv]

Yeah, the open fold is very table dependent. Usually at my tables there will be a raise behind me if I don't raise first, and I don't want to limp call with KQo. I sometimes raise it (and used to do it all the time) but I find that my cbets aren't getting enough respect to make it very profitable.

So currently I'm experimenting with not playing AJo and KQo in EP as a default, but the jury is not in yet..

And galapogos, be sure to buddy list that guy

[Galapogos]

I may have made a few buddy lists on this play myself...

[2_Thumbs_Up]

[quote="zook"]A flop raise after you've represented AA with your limp/re-raise is weakness???quote]

But do fish know that limp/re-raise means AA? I'm not saying they don't know it. I'm asking if they do.

[zook]

A flop raise after you've represented AA with your limp/re-raise is weakness???

But do fish know that limp/re-raise means AA? I'm not saying they don't know it. I'm asking if they do.

I guess not