Deep tough hand very complicated

[Jager]

I am going to need to do this in sections:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($212.25)
SB ($60.95)
Hero ($426.85)
UTG ($413.15)
MP ($364.15)
CO ($241)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A.
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero ???

[AHiltz]

This comes down to reads on UTG. If he's a multi-tabling nit, and has only made a 3x raise UTG, then fold. If he and the others that called are gamblers, then easy call and see the flop.

[gabe]

$40 straight

[Jager]

Sorry Reads UTG 45/19ish...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($212.25)
SB ($60.95)
Hero ($426.85)
UTG ($413.15)
MP ($364.15)
CO ($241)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A.
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $40, UTG calls $34, MP calls $34, CO folds, Button calls $34.

Flop: ($167) Q, J, T (4 players)
Hero ???

[Benoso]

I'd check the flop UTG, and aim to get it all in on this street of course.

[biondino]

Omg that flop made me hard (if that's not a paradox)

[jyms]

I am going to need to do this in sections:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($212.25)
SB ($60.95)
Hero ($426.85)
UTG ($413.15)
MP ($364.15)
CO ($241)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A .
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero ???

According to Sklansky,

AK is the favorite against any non-pair hand, a slight dog against all pairs through QQ, a moderate dog against KK and a huge dog against only AA. The fact that you hold one Ace cuts the odds that your opponent has AA in half.
Also, AK doesn't play well after the flop OOP with deep stacks, especially in multiway pots. Blah, balh, blah.... because AK is unlikely to be in trouble preflop, but often has limited value after the flop, it's often best by far to make a big preflop reraise with it.

[gabe]

"hero raises to $40"

woohoo

now bet $120....checking here sucks, build the pot with so many people in

[koolmoe]

Oh no, here comes the J on the turn...

[Miffed22001]

just fucking push. nh gg.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i like a check or a small lead a lot.

[Genitruc]

100-130$ seems about right to me on this flop.

It def hit someone else pretty hard

[Renton]

this seems like a very shallow and uncomplicated hand. no offence op

[bode]

lead out for $120ish since you were the reraiser. i would bet one of the villains has another AK here.

[Genitruc]

Renton :

OP said he would post hand in pieces

So I'm guessing things get crazy on the turn/river (flush completes then board pairs lol)

Let's wait and see before dismissing the hand.

[Renton]

Renton :

OP said he would post hand in pieces

So I'm guessing things get crazy on the turn/river (flush completes then board pairs lol)

Let's wait and see before dismissing the hand.

Im not dismissing it. Im just saying that assuming he makes the optimal play of reraising to 40 pre and the optimal play of doing whatever he wants on the flop (it doesn't seem to really matter, the money will go in either way), there either won't be a turn card (with money behind), or there will be so little money left behind that the turn card will be meaningless even if it isn't a blank.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I probably bet 80 to rep an AA/KK hand.

[Genitruc]

that's not true since more than 1 villain is deep here (re : Renton)

lotsa turn cards make this tough/interesting

[Jager]

I am sorry this hand isn't to your liking Renton, but the multible callers, being oop, floping the nuts, still being 4 handed, makes for a lot of decisions.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($212.25)
SB ($60.95)
Hero ($426.85)
UTG ($413.15)
MP ($364.15)
CO ($241)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A.
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $40, UTG calls $34, MP calls $34, CO folds, Button calls $34.

Flop: ($167) Q, J, T (4 players)
Hero bets $100, UTG calls $100, MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($367) Q (2 players)
Hero ???

[StinkyBeaver]

as me you bet to small on flop. The pot is almost a buyin, you wanna take it down or not give odds.

Turn makes me puke and I don't know how to play these hands

[IowaSkinsFan]

Wow looky here, He has 220 behind in a 320 dollar pot. I guess the turn is interesting.

But WTF, any set should obviously push the flop? so what exactly does he have here? He could have JJ, which was possibly scared someone had QQ and wanted to see a turn? TT makes a good amount of sense. Maybe this is a guy who couldn't fold AA/KK on the flop?

But I think we have to push, TT may even fold if the guy is being a Nit. There's just sooo much dead money.

[Genitruc]

haha thought something like that might happen...

u both have about 280 left right?

He doesn't always have a boat. Since he's very loose preflop, he can have Qx just as much if not more (which he's prob not folding).

I'd just shove. If he's on a pair+flushdraw type hand you should take this pot down now since it so ginormous.

If he's got a boat, GG RE-LOAD

edit : among the non-boat hands he can have here (with really loose preflop stats) are KQ, AQ, J10 etc. I'm trying to figure out what checking accomplishes. Don't think it really accomplishes anything unless you think he'll stupidly push a flushdraw on the turn here...

[IowaSkinsFan]

If he's on a pair+flushdraw type hand

Put that in his range too. This is some draw a lot.

[Genitruc]

If he's on a pair+flushdraw type hand

Put that in his range too. This is some draw a lot.

I'm thinking AdJd

[nutsinho]

this is dumb, bet 160$ dollars on the flop, any other line is waaay worse in terms of deceiving your opponents, also doesnt leave you with any real decisions to make later in the hand which is wonderful because of the stack depth

[IowaSkinsFan]

this is dumb, bet 160$ dollars on the flop

nuts, no one has said $160 on the flop yet so I wouldn't go as far as calling anyone in this thread dumb.

[Renton]

Wow looky here, He has 220 behind in a 320 dollar pot. I guess the turn is interesting.

But WTF, any set should obviously push the flop? so what exactly does he have here? He could have JJ, which was possibly scared someone had QQ and wanted to see a turn? TT makes a good amount of sense. Maybe this is a guy who couldn't fold AA/KK on the flop?

But I think we have to push, TT may even fold if the guy is being a Nit. There's just sooo much dead money.

see this is exactly what i was saying. The stack sizes are structure such that he only has 1/2-2/3 of the pot on the turn, which means he doesn't get away on any turn. Worst card in the deck, Q comes, well, he still c/c's all in because overpairs, AQ and splits happen enough for plus EV. If it completes a flush, then what are we gonna do, fold to the least likely hand in his range?

By the way Jager, i like this hand, i was just halfjokingly countering everything in the title with the homonym. All im saying is that once the preflop bet and the flop bet go in (more especially if you bet more on the flop like everyone is saying), stacks are shallow enough that theres NO WAY you get away on ANY turn (imo).

[nutsinho]

A check or small lead is indisputably dumb barring a very specific read, i said 160 because that is the size of the pot--anywhere from 125 to pushing is fine with me

[Jager]

I checked intending to c/r, as has been said I am not folding...Guesses as to villains holding and outcome???

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($212.25)
SB ($60.95)
Hero ($426.85)
UTG ($413.15)
MP ($364.15)
CO ($241)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A.
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $40, UTG calls $34, MP calls $34, CO folds, Button calls $34.

Flop: ($167) Q, J, T (4 players)
Hero bets $100, UTG calls $100, MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($367) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $190, Hero raises to $286.85, UTG calls $83.15 (All-In).

River: ($927) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $927

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think he would've pushed with a combo draw so I'm gonna say TT

[bigspenda73]

AK FTC

[gabe]

you arent folding this ever so next hand..

[Genitruc]

villain has KQ GG

[bigspenda73]

Where's my puking emoticon god damnit

[Jager]

Villain turned 7d 5d...

[Genitruc]

vnh

i think i mentioned checking would be fun on the turn if you thought villain would bet a flushdraw!!!

[Lukie]

just fucking push. nh gg.

good god do you really think shoving 400 here to win 24 into a UTG raiser is a good play?

[Halv]

Villain turned 7d 5d...

OMG I never laughed so hard at a hand history before!

Edit: lukie; I'm pretty sure he's saying open push flop. With 100BB's how do you like a push preflop?

[Miffed22001]

just fucking push. nh gg.

good god do you really think shoving 400 here to win 24 into a UTG raiser is a good play?

shoving the nuts is underrated.

[jyms]

shoving the nuts is underrated.

Eh, what do you know? Your just a workin' stiff like the rest of us.

[bode]

just fucking push. nh gg.

good god do you really think shoving 400 here to win 24 into a UTG raiser is a good play?

shoving the nuts is underrated.

even at $25nl i see people doing this all the time. i dont think its that underated when even the microstakes people are doing it.

[ilikeaces86]

I never fold just bet close to pot on flop and get it in somehow on turn.

[zenbitz]

I like hero's line, betting more on the flop just *might* fold the idiot with 75d.

[Renton]

I like hero's line, betting more on the flop just *might* fold the idiot with 75d.

yea, but thats playing perfectly against the least likely hand in villains range.

[Jager]

Here was my thought process on my flop bet. I thought someone behind would most likely to have a donked up AK as well or a set. If they had AK then I am most likely looking at a split pot, I needed to trap as much dead money as I could. I bet a little lite hope that UTG calls, then someone behind pushes. Then at least I get another $50 out of this hand. Is this the wrong train of thought here??

[Genitruc]

I think even with the current nuts the priority should be taking down the pot when it's so big in terms of BB's, especially when the board is draw-heavy with many likely holdings in a 4-way pot being able to suck out on you.

Not really an answer to above post, just a thought.

[jackvance]

I think the $100 can be perfectly justified. There aren't that many outs to pair the board, especially if the other guys are holding some of the Q/J/Ts.

Villain ended up having one of the most unexpected hands ever though, lol..

[dsaxton]

This is not very interesting. Bet between 2/3 to the full size of the pot on the flop, then go all-in on any turn card.

[zenbitz]

I like hero's line, betting more on the flop just *might* fold the idiot with 75d.

yea, but thats playing perfectly against the least likely hand in villains range.

I think I meant I like the flop line. The turn c/r is kinda ballsy because of the diamonds.